Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Sov.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/516338/190553

10 mins into the 1st quarter in a game we're winning and we have literally 0 morale on our entire offense, which causes plays like that to occur. also worth noting we have ~70 toughness on our entire OL and plenty of heart.

edit: update for the end of game, roughly ~90 rev cakes and i would say we have one of the better tuned balanced offensive lines in regards to the recent changes.

To be fair, only 33 of those happened against your OLine, and the ones that got pancaked the most have very lopsided builds. Like, one of them has 25 in one of his blocking powers, and 40 balance.

I'll probably end up tweaking it a bit more to take more into account the power differential for balance loss and moving away from more of a static system, which will in theory make it so lower power players aren't constantly getting revcaked by low power players as you see in rookie.

Originally posted by Corndog
To be fair, only 25 of those happened against your OLine, and the ones that got pancaked the most have very lopsided builds. Like, one of them has 25 in one of his blocking powers, and 40 balance.

I'll probably end up tweaking it a bit more to take more into account the power differential for balance loss and moving away from more of a static system, which will in theory make it so lower power players aren't constantly getting revcaked by low power players as you see in rookie.

33 against our oline but ya.

Originally posted by McLovinCowboys
I'm also a BIG fan of the changes, i just don't understand how one can be against a full respec after big changes like that? Specially since they announce after everyone spent the skill points.

Yeah offenses are getting destroyed on morale, even when winning and having production.

But blocking WRs are getting pretty insane high morale, its funny, since they match CBs with bad/mediocre run blocking skills.

personally im not against it, i just dont think its 100% necessary. we could fix all our builds with a normal respec, we just didnt have enough time to run a couple scrims and talk about it first and make the proper changes. i just wish we had a bit more time and i would have paid to respec normally.

Originally posted by Corndog
To be fair, only 25 of those happened against your OLine, and the ones that got pancaked the most have very lopsided builds. Like, one of them has 25 in one of his blocking powers, and 40 balance.

I'll probably end up tweaking it a bit more to take more into account the power differential for balance loss and moving away from more of a static system, which will in theory make it so lower power players aren't constantly getting revcaked by low power players as you see in rookie.

yes i agree a few of the OL builds could have been better, but that plays into my point for more time, it was a real time crunch so we did one scrim, talked about it real quick, and just went for the best we could on short notice.

i appreciate you guys taking the time to give feedback and being open to tweaking it and seeing how it effects things.

ill be interested to see how Popeye blocks tonight. Due to a lot of testing we decided to take away intimidation on most of our guys as balance seemed to be more the way to go (prior to this offseason's changes of course). But a guy like this should fair well either way.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/268207

That being said, this guy performed quite well in game one against the crazy power of CPU's.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/265177

Originally posted by bhall43
33 against our oline but ya.

Hey gimme a break, I'm on my phone on a bus.

Originally posted by Corndog
Hey gimme a break, I'm on my phone on a bus.

Hey CDog, can you check to see if Intimidation auras are stacking? If they are, it could be part of the reason why morale is bottomed out for teams.

Edit: Probably has more to do with cake/rcake ratios. OLineman are mostly only picking up cakes against LBs, CBs and Safeties and DLines are just not taking many RevCakes while putting OLineman on their rumps a fair amount. I would assume the morale being so bad for the OLine is not helping their cause with the trench battles though as DLinemen maintain a decent morale level unlike the OLine.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
Hey CDog, can you check to see if Intimidation auras are stacking? If they are, it could be part of the reason why morale is bottomed out for teams.

It does, and it's intended to, and suffers from diminishing returns. Besides, there's on average more offensive players in the trenches than defensive. If it was caused by stacking, it seems like the balance would be skewed the other direction.

That game may or may not be the best comparison, though. If we want Intimidation to do something, a team that has invested in it across the board should probably see it actually do something. I mean, they still lost pretty handedly.

That said, there does seem to be a downward trend of morale for offenses. I think part of it is probably that 60 toughness doesn't completely negate morale loss from base level intimidation anymore. Though, there's probably more to it than that, because it seems like that would make the morale loss go both ways.

Should consecutive rolls won for BRB/PRT for defensive players also have diminishing returns then? Not really sure what the answer is to DLines wrecking OLines right now.

Originally posted by Corndog

That said, there does seem to be a downward trend of morale for offenses. I think part of it is probably that 60 toughness doesn't completely negate morale loss from base level intimidation anymore. Though, there's probably more to it than that, because it seems like that would make the morale loss go both ways.

Well when you look into this game right here: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/514461/84568

you can see that this guy (almost no investment in in intimidation but good investment into toughness and balance) is holding his own most of the game in the 50's morale.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/265178

while this guy: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/265177

works himself into the 70's in morale and performs quite well.

meanwhile the TE's: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/265192
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/265188

They tend to gravitate around the lower spectrum of the scale all game between 0-40. They have no investments in intimidation and are more moderate in Toughness and Balance.

It kinda works however it does seem like the gravitational morale starting at 50 seems to put offenses in a disadvantage early on in a game for whatever reason. It is only after gaining the confidence that our well built OG puts himself into position to start doing well with high morale. Granted I am not sure if that changes anything if everyone starts at 100 morale either as its pretty similar i guess?

Originally posted by Corndog
It does, and it's intended to, and suffers from diminishing returns. Besides, there's on average more offensive players in the trenches than defensive. If it was caused by stacking, it seems like the balance would be skewed the other direction.

That game may or may not be the best comparison, though. If we want Intimidation to do something, a team that has invested in it across the board should probably see it actually do something. I mean, they still lost pretty handedly.

That said, there does seem to be a downward trend of morale for offenses. I think part of it is probably that 60 toughness doesn't completely negate morale loss from base level intimidation anymore. Though, there's probably more to it than that, because it seems like that would make the morale loss go both ways.

good information and appreciated,

i would assume that 60 toughness is on the higher end of what most teams currently use (obviously going forward teams will focus more on toughness since the changes) and that most teams use base intim or between the range of 20-40 pts in intim.

if a team invested heavily in intim on their DL, i would have no issue suffering low morale on my OL as that was the other teams intent by spending those SP in intim stat (which is not cheap, so other areas would be lacking) but if a team is at base level intim (like i believe that both of the teams we faced so far are) i am not happy with how our toughness is factoring against the base level intim and which is then being compounded by the rev cakes.

maybe the simple solution is to start every team at 100 morale each game rather than 50 and keep everything else exactly as-is? would be more incentive for high intim but might also fix the issues with the low morale vs base intim?

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
I know not every game is 130. Just saying it is a major change and one that I support for the future of the game. I am not a huge fan of where it leaves my squad that just entered the vet ranks fully boosted though. Do we have 5 seasons worth of trench abuse to look forward to? Previous major changes have been met with full respecs as I said before? Can we look forward to full respecs for OLines and DLines next offseason by chance? I am prepared to take this season on the chin as other teams will likely have similar issues but my concerns only rise with each passing season and the deeper adjustments that lower tiers are able to make.

One thing sort of missed while discussing your team. A number of your guys taking heavy cakes are playing on low contracts. Hodor for one was caked 15 times in 23 plays. The gamble of playing some of these low contract guys in games in order to have more superstar talent might have doubled down on you this offseason.

I will admit this has been a great thread!!! Learned alot over the last few days, think the O-line got a bad beat this round, but the comments and watching the sims have made it easier to focus on builds going forward.

I did just find a bug in code that, when fixed, will likely have a fairly big change on the cake/revcake numbers.

Originally posted by Corndog
I did just find a bug in code that, when fixed, will likely have a fairly big change on the cake/revcake numbers.

That is good to hear. Will there be a hot fix after games played today by chance?