Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Galkuris
Originally posted by Darth Asheme

Let's not forget that this is, in essence, a PvP game, and every attack needs a counter. Right now, any defender can cause a KL, and no one has any idea how. Jackhammer helps, and there's a STR req on it, but we've all seen 25 STR CBs and 40 STR safeties KL with regularity. Carrying is supposed to be the counter, but how can you counter something that doesn't seem to require any tangible attribute?

From what I saw part way through last season there was a direct correlation between KL pass percentage and carrying+strength. Last season we did a little test on our team with strength+carrying vs drops (obviously not all KL, but the difference in catching with the guys tested isn't much). They all went in order of highest s+c = lowest drops. The difference between 50 to 65/70 was very noticeable, while the difference between 70 and 100 was lower (but still noticeable).

Also, lets be real guys, KL passes happen often enough irl. If there weren't this many KL passes then we would just need something else to counter the passing offense.

Finally, I don't get the whole comparison with catching and KL. It doesn't take a genius to figure there should be little correlation between them. If a LB comes and crushes a WR right after a catch it makes no difference if they actually had good hands or not.

So WRs need 70 speed/agility/catching/carrying?

Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by jrry32

WRs are nerfed beyond reason because they can't get separation, their VAs suck and knocked loose kills them...and people wonder why so many teams #1 WR is a HB? Drago, keep speaking the truth.

This. Only reason I favor my HB's so much is because it is what works, most WR's are useless.

I see no problem with it. On my team, I have 1 WR that gets open and makes plays so I have to pass to my HB a lot too.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by kurieg

Originally posted by jrry32


WRs are nerfed beyond reason because they can't get separation, their VAs suck and knocked loose kills them...and people wonder why so many teams #1 WR is a HB? Drago, keep speaking the truth.

The main problem with WRs is the terrible AI for deciding when to throw passes. QBs should anticipate the opening (by reading coverage and knowing the routes) and throw to that. Waiting to throw UNTIL the man is open is often terrible, because it's often leading the WR into the next bad guy.

It's a combo of that along with what he stated. That def. adds to it, but terrible VA's and KL when compared to CB's VA's just beat WR's down even more.

Well I can't for the life of me figure out WRs. I think the "X Factor" effects them more than any position. I have 2 WRs, one has:
121+ speed, 75+ agility, 70+ catching, 60+ vision, 60+ jumping and 48+ confidence and can't do anything. He can't get separation. I have another WR with 100+ speed, 75+ agility, 80+ catching, 50+ vision, 50+ jumping, 48+ confidence and 11 route run who also can't get separation...IDK what to do? The first WR made a ton of plays a few seasons ago when he was with my QB because my QB targeted him but hasn't done a lot since and teams have moved him around and his eq. around...nothing works.

Originally posted by steellithium
Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

LOL at you, my WR Jimmy Smith has just over 100 speed, 75 agility and 82 catching...he doesn't do shit while the WR named Galloping Mustang on my team has mid 120s in speed and dominates on both short and long routes. My WR Heyward-Bey I tried as a balanced WR with like 98 speed, 92 agility and like 75-80 catching and he did nothing.

Originally posted by steellithium
Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

Completely agree. Make a Larry Fitzgerald instead of a Devin Hester. Perhaps this will lead to more diversity among WR builds.

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by steellithium

Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

LOL at you, my WR Jimmy Smith has just over 100 speed, 75 agility and 82 catching...he doesn't do shit while the WR named Galloping Mustang on my team has mid 120s in speed and dominates on both short and long routes. My WR Heyward-Bey I tried as a balanced WR with like 98 speed, 92 agility and like 75-80 catching and he did nothing.

And to the point with strength and carrying, I've seen WRs with high catching, strength at 50+ and carrying at 50+ do nothing. WRs are just luck, some produce...some don't, I don't even think build is a huge factor.

I was wondering. I started to roll a WR to test this then remembered I have enough players and this would be too expensive of an experiment. Anyways, with the level gains of 0.5 to confidence and carrying from level 1 to 21. Would it be worth while to take one or both of these skills to the 3:1 or 4:1 very early? Then build a normal WR?

I would be interested to see if somebody could take confidence to the 4:1 by level 11. Then the level gains alone could take it to the 5:1 by level 21. Of course after level 11 the build would have to resume as a normal WR. I think it would be interesting t osee a cocky WR in the sims. I bet not many WRs have more than 60 confidence. Anybody have more than 60? Do they drop lots of passes or get them knocked loose?

There is a place for speed WRs, sure. But when every single WR on the team has 115+ speed, you can't complain anymore.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
I am not saying it's not a problem, but I tend to look at 70-80 Catching as the level at which you catch everything whereas a lot of people seem to think barely above 60 is enough.

So are you on record here saying that "catching" has a bigger factor in the knocked loose roll than carrying? So the game, by design, has the defender pass a catching check, based on catching, twice?

Realistically, how many times in a game do we see a ball knocked loose? Maybe 3 times in a game? 4? 5? The answer certainly isn't 14. This game has absolutely shit the bed on this design and relationship between the players. It's not difficult to catch a fucking ball and secure it - the tough part is getting the ball to the receiver (aka QB beating the CB) in the first place.

This is bs, on this receiver and the TE in question both sit right around the 70 mark in catching. One slightly over, one slighty under.

Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
Originally posted by steellithium

Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

Completely agree. Make a Larry Fitzgerald instead of a Devin Hester. Perhaps this will lead to more diversity among WR builds.



There's plenty of diversity and I'm telling you if you have a dud WR...it won't work. If you have a good WR, just about anything works.

Originally posted by steellithium
Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

I know a WR with 120 speed, 70 agility, 68 catching, 50+ carrying, not sure what strength is but he still gets passes knocked loose.

Right now it seems like any CB can knock passes loose. If a CB has the speed/agility to guard the WR he shouldn't be knocking passes loose like and at the same time if a CB has enough strength to knock any pass loose that comes his way then he shouldn't be able to guard the WR for very long.

Originally posted by r87
Originally posted by xcoach2

Jack Hammer works every down, Mr. Reliable only counters jack hammer on 3rd & 4th down.

maybe that's a sign that you should run on 1st and 2nd o_O

Yea, fuck QB's, TE', and WR's on first and second down. Just fuck them. Do it.

Originally posted by steellithium
Come one guys, most of you have 110+ in speed. There is no way you are giving adequate attention to catching/carrying/strength. In real football you don't send a track star over the middle.

Also if your TE is catching 70% of the balls thrown his way, that is a really good percentage for any player running routes over the middle.

Defense gets accused of wanting to stop everything, but you guys want to catch everything without modifying your base build. Bring your speed down in EQ, and get catching/carrying/strength up.

I never said me TE was catching 70% of the balls thrown his way. I said he wasn't dropping 70%. In other words 30% of the passes thrown his way were drops. That doesn't include bad pass or pass that were deflected or intercepted.

So what you are saying is WRs should be slower than LBs, DEs, SS and FS? Yeah, just shows how silly dropping speed really looks to get carrying and strength higher than most safeties have strength and tackling.

Originally posted by ATL_DirtyBird
So WRs need 70 speed/agility/catching/carrying?

No, the numbers were carrying+strength not one (so 50-55 of both was the best %, which was about 10% drops)

I also think this game counts drops more often then the NFL. IRL when a WR just gets the tips of his fingers on the ball it doesn't go as a drop. In this game I'm just "guessing" it does -- and probably counts as a KL if the LB/SS/CB hit them while they are just barely touching it.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
I was wondering. I started to roll a WR to test this then remembered I have enough players and this would be too expensive of an experiment. Anyways, with the level gains of 0.5 to confidence and carrying from level 1 to 21. Would it be worth while to take one or both of these skills to the 3:1 or 4:1 very early? Then build a normal WR?

I would be interested to see if somebody could take confidence to the 4:1 by level 11. Then the level gains alone could take it to the 5:1 by level 21. Of course after level 11 the build would have to resume as a normal WR. I think it would be interesting t osee a cocky WR in the sims. I bet not many WRs have more than 60 confidence. Anybody have more than 60? Do they drop lots of passes or get them knocked loose?

Totally what I was thinking. From levels 0-20, you could have 3:1 cap in carrying in no time at all. If you left it at 3:1, it would be 4:1 by the time you get the rest of your stats where you want them. Cap building speed and agility is pointless for WR's. You are only going to get 4 points from the leveling bonus. They can be built later.