Warrior General Games

If they don't refund the FP ... it's a total SCAM. We're not asking for our money back. Simply that which we have already bought.

It's all about reputation and if they did that ... their reputation would surely be hurting.

I have read most of this thread and am really disappointed in those who complain about paying the smallest of costs to play a game that they chose to pay. No one forced anybody to pay for anything. Any small cost that you end up paying should be considered the price of your entertainment.

I have gotten entertainment from many different websites, and while I tend to gravitate towards the ones that have no cost at all, I have also paid for the entertainment from other sites. When I bought my FP for the first time a few days ago, I did not expect to ever get that money back, nor did I expect that money to last forever. I figured that money would last as long as I kept those FP. How quickly I spend (very important here SPEND) those FP, that is the measure of how long, the money I used, will last. I think those that get the fun from this game should really look at what they get from this site, and compare it to other sites from which they gain entertainment value. Is this site covered in ads? Do I get advertising/spam emails because signed up at the site? I haven't seen either of those things from this site. What about you? ALL of the other sites that have entertained me, have had ads all over the site, and I get a little surge of spam in my email, even on sites that I have paid to play. This site is clear of superfluous crap, and very entertaining.

The idea of retirement seems inevitable, to a true fan of the game of football. Players do not last forever!! If they did the game would become boring, and monotonous. This is a game based on reality. Just like in life there is a 'cycle of football'. Older players age, their abilities decline, and they choose to retire, which saddens us all, but then we get revere their achievements and careers, and then we look forward to the young prospects. Who will take the place of the great HOF QB that just retired. Will he be good enough? Will he be better? Or will he be the disappointment that we all feared when the previous player announced his retirement? This is the 'cycle of football' and it is one of the reasons that we all enjoy it as much as we do.

I will say that I believe that retirement should not always be forced, but abilities should decline at some point. I like the idea of making the whole experience as true to life as possible. I have seen in other threads that injuries may be included some day. Forced retirement should only be the result of a career ending injury. Previous injuries should be a factor when it comes to the onset of declining abilities and how drastically that decline occurs. Declining abilities might be slowed with strategic training, but not completely avoided. Then it becomes the agents decision whether to preserve the players memory and mystique or to let him play a few more seasons. Owners and GM's will also have to decide whether sign the player or to let him go. The agents skills will also be tested. Can he get the player signed to a team? Can he keep him playing even as his skills decline? Retirement adds new levels of strategy and fun to the game.

I do like the idea of a retired player being able to join the front office of a team and perhaps his experience could benefit the players of that team. Some the XP that he gained through out his career could be distributed the players on that team over time.

The fact that any portion of my investment into a player and his development, would be returned to me seems very generous. I do wonder what would happen to a retired players money? Equipment? And other possible things that he spent is salary on?

Anyway, to everyone complaining about retirement,"SHHHHHHHHHHHH! Be quiet, the grown-eps are talking, Sweety."

To Bort, D/D and everyone else involved with the development of the site,"Great job, Great site, and Thank you for sharing with us all."

Paid for by 'Fans of jay4roch'.

and for the record, Bort is without a doubt, the most accessible and reasonable online game developer I've run into. You guys have no idea how good you have it...

I mostly look at it as Donating money. I'm donating money to help Bort and DD keep this game up and running. And after a year and a half I actually get 70% of my donations back to put into new players is great. I don't know about you but I've learned alot in the few months I've been playing. Every player I create gets better every time. In 10 season I'm sure I will know a lot more about what works and what doesnt. So I'm fairly confident I can make even better players then my first ones. I know the mistakes I made already with them.



One nice feature would be able to Reroll a guy with the same name/same position it would keep all his Awards and career stats. Can just add a blank spot that says Retired between the seasons. That way you always have a record of his stats and acclompishments.

Originally posted by rbetesta
I think people should be glad that they are even getting points back after retirement. They could choose that you don't get any flex points back and even if it is forced retirement, your points could finish off when your player does. Compare it to other games like World of Warcraft where you spend money on monthly fees and after your months are done, you don't get anything back. You're not being forced to buy flex points to play, flex points are there as a bonus to help you level up your players faster and the idea that we get points back after our player is done playing, is indeed a very gracious offer (Thanks Bort and Dagger!).

+1
The site cost money to run after all, you got server fees and the such. Factor in all the work they put in to it and then you get labor fees. 70%return is a good return for a game that you are playing for free with the option to buy your way up faster. Go to a few other MM's and see if you get cash back after buying their deals. Most of the time when a game is made for free play they will add in extra benefits to buy so that they can maintain the site, well this site is offering to give you back some of that money.

Originally posted by Peter Banning
If they don't refund the FP ... it's a total SCAM. We're not asking for our money back. Simply that which we have already bought.

It's all about reputation and if they did that ... their reputation would surely be hurting.

Dude, a scam is when one intentionaly omits the fact that you are being conned and getting NOTHING in return. You choose to buy the FP to boost your charector which means you bought a product and used it to the fullest. Nothing last forever except here you have these guys saying that they WILL give you back most of what you bought.

Also if you are asking that they give you back what you had already bought, and used I might add, then you are essentially asking for you money back.

If a pole were taken from flex point buyers I am sure the people voting "fair" would far outnumber those claiming "scam"

The system in place is more than fair and is very generous when you compare it to any other MMO you spend money on.

You never get your monthly fee back on a pay to play game when you quit the game or decide to make a new char.

Even free to play games that you can buy items.. like Silkroad and such.. all the items you buy are exhaustable and once used up totally will be gone and you get none of that money back.

I don't see why people are complaining.

Heh, go play Ogame and buy their "officers" which only last for limited time frames depending on the cost and see if you get any of that money back. Those are kind of the same as fp since they enable you to develop certain areas faster than the non paying population.

An idea to throw out...maybe someone said this, I didnt read all 17 pages.

What about if there was a league created your player automatically went to once he hit say lvl 50 or 60...or 80...or whatever number you wanted. This way the player moves on and still has value, and new players can get PT in their leagues.

The leagues could be tagged and you couldnt be under or over a certain number to join. So like Western Conference A Lvl 20> League (for example). If you lvl'd above 20 during the season, fine, but when the new season started youd have to move up to say Lvl 40> Leagues.

Originally posted by jay4roch
I have read most of this thread and am really disappointed in those who complain about paying the smallest of costs to play a game that they chose to pay. No one forced anybody to pay for anything. Any small cost that you end up paying should be considered the price of your entertainment.

jay4roch, I won't quote the entire post as it was lengthy but you hit it on the head and I couldn't agree more with you. I have quite a few players so its not small cost to boost each season and to me the 70% return is a substantial amount. I hope there is a forced retirement but I'd also like it based off of position though I don't think the majority would agree with that train of thought. Just trying to keep it real.

I think players should only get 20 seasons max and less with injuries (upcoming feature). This way, we don't get level 100 monster players.

You have to give the new guys a chance.

I really don't understand some of you people. You get all the flex points for creating your player back. So, no argument on that one.

You get 70% of the flex points spent on custom equipment and 70% of the flex points you used to boost. The most you can spend on custom equipment is 900 points. If you boost all 3 levels each season it will cost 600, 900, or 1200 flex points. Let's say you are at a glamor position and it costs you 1200 a year for 10 years. That is 12,000 flex points, plus the 900 for equipment. That's a total of 12,900 flex points. Getting 70% back would be 9030 flex points, meaning you "lose" 3870 flex points.

Looking at the page where you buy flex points, you can buy 3200 or 5000. Interpolating to 3870 flex points would be $29.84. That's for 10 seasons, which equate to about 15 months in real life.

YOU GET TO PLAY THE GAME FOR LESS THAN $30 FOR OVER A YEAR!!!

That is very cheap for a game people! Quit complaining.

Besides, it would be retarded for players to play forever. The top pro teams would never be beaten if that were the case.

Hmm, peeps have a right to an opinion and I have mine. I don't like the idea of losing my player so soon. I agree that the FP return is great. I don't have a problem with a forced retirement due to injury. I don't even have a problem with forced retirement per say. I do have a problem with only 10 seasons. Also, is this played seasons or 10 seasons from when you create the character?

It seems to me that an advanced league could be a better solution or at least 20 played seasons.

By the way, I didn't know about the retirement before I created my characters and put money into them. I play other mmorpg's and have characters that are 5 RL years old. They aren't forced to retire but eventually I may tire of them and get new ones. Additionally, I figure I could play the characters until a sequel comes out or they shut the servers down.

I think retirement could be done but a lot of thought needs to go into it (which I am sure it will) and a statement should be posted on the page where you purchase FP advising you of the retirment/FP return policy.

I'm okay with the 70% return, you guys need to make some kind of profit, or else what is the point of running this game? i feel 10 seasons is a bit small though, is there now was to extend it to something like 15?

For the record:

I think 10 seasons is an excellent window for a player, and also realistic as a sim. Your player can keep playing, but will have lost a step compared to his peak years.

I also think that 100% of creation cost refund and 70% of boost/custom gear refund is fine, in fact I think it is pretty generous.

If you like to "play for free," you can. Just don't buy gear or boost. That is a very viable way to play, and there will alwyas be a demand for your players. Remeber, an unboosted player is generally better *at their level* than a boosted player (because you have had a lot more time to train than a boosted player of similar level).

Frankly, I would still play at about the same rate if there were no refund.

Nice job Bort and DD, very well thought out.