Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bort


- Hardcore players who want to think about everything. They choose "franchise" mode and select the worst team, trying to build them up. They would really like our original plan, but there's probably not as many of them as there are of the other two.

I'm under that category. When I play Madden or NCAA football, I pick a bad team, and build them up and move on (in NCAA). Man, I would love to just toss ideas at you and get feedback on them, mainly about tying performance into salary, the salary cap, and any possible revisions, but you've got this damn whitelist thing lol. So I'm stuck waiting.

Originally posted by Bort
Catch made me do it!

Honestly, though, from lots of lurking and reading I've done, there's definitely plenty of people who would rather not have to deal with finances at all, or very little at least. IMO, there's three types of people who we are dealing with here, and they have different goals. They can be summed up by what mode they choose on Madden or any other sports video game:

- Hardcore players who want to think about everything. They choose "franchise" mode and select the worst team, trying to build them up. They would really like our original plan, but there's probably not as many of them as there are of the other two.
- The average player, who doesn't mind a little thinking, but doesn't want to be bothered too much. They choose "season" mode with their favorite team, and just play through, maybe making a few trades.
- The casual player, who just wants to get into it without hassle. They choose "quick play" with their favorite team vs a random opponent.

Hardcore leagues would be created with all the new bells and whistles, so the hardcore guys can get the "full" experience.
Normal leagues would need a much more simple financial system with a few choices, for the average player.
Casual or super casual leagues cover the guys who just want to play.

Average probably outweighs hardcore by a fair margin, and probably casual too.


I honestly don't know if there is an "in between" financial system out there for the average leagues. Anything stripped down doesn't really cover the bases you need in a financial system, and is therefore superfluous or limiting. Not exactly in an easy spot here.
Go back to your "original plan" (vision)

Yes 95% of the game would be happy without finances- - But the more I look at it, its just another va/aeq modifier that puts everyone on equal ground. It will be fine. people will adapt, and it doesn't negatively effect the community.

I think now that it has been explained in much greater detail people will be ok with that last change.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Correct, but they also weren't saying to change it to THIS. You don't listen to people only to make an even worse change, I'm sorry, but that is what this is.

In all fairness, pretty sure they didn't go in thinking this was a worse change, they thought it was more of a middle ground.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Sarg01

He means instead of having Bottom 25% of market = 50 morale, have bottom 25% = 100 morale and Top 25% = 125 morale. Then you can still implement the team possessions and such, just to boost above 100 instead of to mitigate against a morale penalty.

How is that different at all? Now I want 125% morale or I am mad. All you did was shift the numbers.

Yes, but at least at the lower end of the spectrum (a player being paid the minimum salary), his player will perform as well as his build suggests - not worse. Then those who get paid more or are on teams with luxury items get a bonus to their morale.

Originally posted by Doug_Plank
so there will be a 'hardcore' WL and a separate 'regular' WL?? same for Pros?

/dont get it


That's ok, they're still making that part up as they go along.

I love Bort and Catch, but just "winging it" isn't the best business model, particularly so when the folks involved have exclusive control of the "Post" button when it comes to "Announcements".

Originally posted by Bort
How is that different at all? Now I want 125% morale or I am mad. All you did was shift the numbers.

Heh. My exact response was:

Originally posted by Sarg01
There's no difference!

However several of the loudest complainants in the thread assured me it was totally different. Sort of a "don't tell me my player is limited" mindset.

Don't understand it myself, but don't care as long as it fixes the gripe, ya know?

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
Because it adds some strategy and complexity to the game - especially on the financial front where it is currently 1-dimensional. Just because everyone could take care of it with a few hours in the offseason, doesn't mean that everyone can do it RIGHT.

That's true. So now we're making the elite teams even better. Hooray for less parity!

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
That's true. So now we're making the elite teams even better. Hooray for less parity!

Are you looking for parity or to compete?

I think the bigger picture here is if we're not going to implement the new system because people don't like, then that's one thing. But now we're restricting the number of good players a team can sign to try to even out the leagues and stop super teams? When was this ever part of the agenda?

If anything if you don't want to piss off all those people and you're seriously worried about losing a good chunk of your userbase, then LEAVE it the way it is.

Originally posted by Bort
How is that different at all? Now I want 125% morale or I am mad. All you did was shift the numbers.

It is easier for a guy who has 2 players to see he is at 100%. He spends $30 on your game and doesn't feel like he is losing anything. It makes it easier for an owned to then dish out morale boosts to the "highest paid players"Star LOT/HB/wr/QB,(just like in real life too) and he can tell everyone else these are the skill positions, they're the highest paid, and the rest of the people have to use their cash to get the boost to conf/stam.

You're making conf/stam twice as important, and by allowing people to go over 100 it would really add a fun dynamic. Even tho you're just moving numbers around, people feel good about going over 100. Nobody feels good about starting at 80.

Originally posted by David Stern
It is easier for a guy who has 2 players to see he is at 100%. He spends $30 on your game and doesn't feel like he is losing anything. It makes it easier for an owned to then dish out morale boosts to the "highest paid players"Star LOT/HB/wr/QB,(just like in real life too) and he can tell everyone else these are the skill positions, they're the highest paid, and the rest of the people have to use their cash to get the boost to conf/stam.

You're making conf/stam twice as important, and by allowing people to go over 100 it would really add a fun dynamic. Even tho you're just moving numbers around, people feel good about going over 100. Nobody feels good about starting at 80.

Holy double Batman,

I agree with Stern for once in my life, I might shoot myself now.

It's all about perception.

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
Then what is the point of having it at all? If everyone could do it why waste an hour of anyone's time?

because it gives people something to do with money...
fixes eq problems...
add some realism/interest to the game...
there was some strategy involved...teams could have different goals and do things differently...
bort and company wanted to improve their game and add another dimension to the game...fair goals before this game goes out of beta...

I am with Sik...the announcement was a lot of the problem. If a summary was added that just gave the quick and dirty details people would not have been so overwhelmed...it would have went over a lot better.

whatever...I liked the original plan from the start...this new plan is absolutely the worst. It will kill the upper tiers of this game...

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
Originally posted by Sik Wit It

Because it adds some strategy and complexity to the game - especially on the financial front where it is currently 1-dimensional. Just because everyone could take care of it with a few hours in the offseason, doesn't mean that everyone can do it RIGHT.

That's true. So now we're making the elite teams even better. Hooray for less parity!

Who said it was only the elite teams who could do it correctly? Maybe an elite team is good at building dots, but not managing finances. Maybe one of the agents on a 4-12 team is an accountant, and does a great job with the finances.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
I think the bigger picture here is if we're not going to implement the new system because people don't like, then that's one thing. But now we're restricting the number of good players a team can sign to try to even out the leagues and stop super teams? When was this ever part of the agenda?

If anything if you don't want to piss off all those people and you're seriously worried about losing a good chunk of your userbase, then LEAVE it the way it is.

Change is good. We're getting to the middle ground dude. We just gotta hope bort doesn't make a rage taco bell run

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
I think the bigger picture here is if we're not going to implement the new system because people don't like, then that's one thing. But now we're restricting the number of good players a team can sign to try to even out the leagues and stop super teams? When was this ever part of the agenda?

If anything if you don't want to piss off all those people and you're seriously worried about losing a good chunk of your userbase, then LEAVE it the way it is.

I think if they go with the Hardcore leagues, they will just move there to avoid it.