User Pass
Home Sign Up Contact Log In
Forum > Pro Leagues > Predict the # of Inaugural WL Teams in WL in S15
Page:
 
HEY YOU GUYS
offline
Link
 
I like how jdbolick is using such unique examples to argue his point.

Tall QBs success versus Shorter QBs who wins?

And the quote, I think it was

Height DOESN'T matter for a WR. I was fucking cracking up.

Once again your example highlighted the unique good WRs.

Care to measure the success of short WR's against taller ones? I'm pretty sure sub 6'0 WR's IN GENERAL do not have the same success.

Keep using such closed specific arguments which clearly have no application to the general success of players in the NFL.
 
jktooley
offline
Link
 
So... I had to revisit JD's last post... I'm pretty much over the whole QB thing... It's pointless, and I've pretty much said everything that I need to say on the topic without adding another thing that JD will try to spin in his favor (still trying to find where I said that OLineman block standing straight up... Pretty sure I just noted that when an Olineman and Dlineman push against each other when pass blocking, either one of them gets blown up, or they DO typically force up out of their drop...), so let's have fun somewhere else...



Originally posted by jdballick
It is natural for someone as hopelessly ignorant as you clearly are to hang on the words of everyone else in the world. After all, you have no knowledge and you're aware of that, so you're incredibly sensitive about your own complete irrelevance. But to give you some of my background, in my impressionable early 20s I worked under the people who challenged all that "conventional wisdom" bullshit in major league baseball. Teams, announcers, analysts, and fans all insisted that some hitters were "clutch." In fact, you probably don't even know that the concept of "clutch hitting" was disproven thanks to the work of sabermetricians. I'm simply not given to accepting ideas because the general public does. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they aren't; I simply demand to know "why" something is held to be true while you accept it implicitly.



This post is awesome. First off, if you were in your early 20's while working under the guys that initially challenged the concept of clutch in baseball, you're old as dirt... Bill James published that shit in Baseball Abstract back in 1984. Even if you were 20 in 1984 that would put you at 45/46 today... You seriously shouldn't be getting this worked up on an internet forum. Think about your family. Don't you think they'd be a touch disappointed if they found you had a heart attack while posting in the World League forums? Especially if they found that you referenced Troy Smith in your argument of short successful qb's? I know I would if that was my dad... Just sayin'.

Now, let's bring up a term that you like to toss around... Correlation does not equal causation... So, how exactly is it that one set of statistics "disproves" clutch while another set of statistics doesn't prove that height impacts QB's? Did you really just contradict yourself that blatantly in the same thread?

Also, didn't you accept implicitly that baseball players can't be clutch because of the works of somebody else? The same thing that you're accusing me of doing? I mean, that's what you said right? And I'm still not so sure that there isn't a clutch factor in baseball... As a Reds fan I watched Adam Dunn tighten up multiple times in pressure situations. Every great once in a while you'd see him make a pitcher pay (probably because the pitcher choked), but way more often than not he would try to take the walk in a pressure count on a close pitch rather than trying to make an impact like a 3/4 hitter should in those situations...

I'll look forward to your comment about throwing around the term correlation does not equal causation and then arguing in the opposite direction later... You have one move left.

 
jktooley
offline
Link
 
One more thing... Since you took the time to make your profession public, and as a writer who gets paid to make his thoughts public, I found some of your comments in other forums rather interesting...

As somebody who has mentioned his impeccable track record in regards to predicting QB success, how did that suggestion back in 2006 that Kellen Clemens would be worth a first round pick in 2-3 years work out for you?
 
Pariah
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by jktooley

This post is awesome. First off, if you were in your early 20's while working under the guys that initially challenged the concept of clutch in baseball, you're old as dirt... Bill James published that shit in Baseball Abstract back in 1984. Even if you were 20 in 1984 that would put you at 45/46 today... You seriously shouldn't be getting this worked up on an internet forum. Think about your family. Don't you think they'd be a touch disappointed if they found you had a heart attack while posting in the World League forums? Especially if they found that you referenced Troy Smith in your argument of short successful qb's? I know I would if that was my dad... Just sayin'.

Now, let's bring up a term that you like to toss around... Correlation does not equal causation... So, how exactly is it that one set of statistics "disproves" clutch while another set of statistics doesn't prove that height impacts QB's? Did you really just contradict yourself that blatantly in the same thread?

Also, didn't you accept implicitly that baseball players can't be clutch because of the works of somebody else? The same thing that you're accusing me of doing? I mean, that's what you said right? And I'm still not so sure that there isn't a clutch factor in baseball... As a Reds fan I watched Adam Dunn tighten up multiple times in pressure situations. Every great once in a while you'd see him make a pitcher pay (probably because the pitcher choked), but way more often than not he would try to take the walk in a pressure count on a close pitch rather than trying to make an impact like a 3/4 hitter should in those situations...

I'll look forward to your comment about throwing around the term correlation does not equal causation and then arguing in the opposite direction later... You have one move left.



Oh man, you just segued into another 15 pages of argument.

 
blln4lyf
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Pariah
Originally posted by jktooley


This post is awesome. First off, if you were in your early 20's while working under the guys that initially challenged the concept of clutch in baseball, you're old as dirt... Bill James published that shit in Baseball Abstract back in 1984. Even if you were 20 in 1984 that would put you at 45/46 today... You seriously shouldn't be getting this worked up on an internet forum. Think about your family. Don't you think they'd be a touch disappointed if they found you had a heart attack while posting in the World League forums? Especially if they found that you referenced Troy Smith in your argument of short successful qb's? I know I would if that was my dad... Just sayin'.

Now, let's bring up a term that you like to toss around... Correlation does not equal causation... So, how exactly is it that one set of statistics "disproves" clutch while another set of statistics doesn't prove that height impacts QB's? Did you really just contradict yourself that blatantly in the same thread?

Also, didn't you accept implicitly that baseball players can't be clutch because of the works of somebody else? The same thing that you're accusing me of doing? I mean, that's what you said right? And I'm still not so sure that there isn't a clutch factor in baseball... As a Reds fan I watched Adam Dunn tighten up multiple times in pressure situations. Every great once in a while you'd see him make a pitcher pay (probably because the pitcher choked), but way more often than not he would try to take the walk in a pressure count on a close pitch rather than trying to make an impact like a 3/4 hitter should in those situations...

I'll look forward to your comment about throwing around the term correlation does not equal causation and then arguing in the opposite direction later... You have one move left.



Oh man, you just segued into another 15 pages of argument.



Rofl
 
Pariah
offline
Link
 
Lets end this argument, someone roll a 5'11 QB, and someone roll a 6'5 QB. Put them on the same team, with the same attributes, and the same tactics, and let them split time. Lets monitor them for 11 seasons and see who is better when it is all said and done.

Your answer lies within.
 
jktooley
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Pariah
Lets end this argument, someone roll a 5'11 QB, and someone roll a 6'5 QB. Put them on the same team, with the same attributes, and the same tactics, and let them split time. Lets monitor them for 11 seasons and see who is better when it is all said and done.

Your answer lies within.


which one is clutch?
 
tautology
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Pariah
Lets end this argument, someone roll a 5'11 QB, and someone roll a 6'5 QB. Put them on the same team, with the same attributes, and the same tactics, and let them split time. Lets monitor them for 11 seasons and see who is better when it is all said and done.

Your answer lies within.



5'11" QB right here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1306498
 
Pariah
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by tautology

5'11" QB right here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1306498


Mark Schlereth just rated him "elite" on NFL tonight.

X-Factor baby.
 
tautology
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by Pariah
Mark Schlereth just rated him "elite" on NFL tonight.

X-Factor baby.


Like all my QBs, he can hand off the ball like nobody's business
 
seanb1979
offline
Link
 
YOU ALL RUSE

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp103/shmokay/42-youve-activated-my-trap-card.jpg
Edited by seanb1979 on Jan 27, 2010 23:12:08
 
PLAYMAKERS
offline
Link
 
didn't anyone here play QB ever? maybe know someone who did.

just ask someone if it makes one difference how tall they were when they played qb

if drew brees is shorter than me and I am assuming all of his O linemen are typical monsters like other nfl teams so height doesn't mean shiznit.
 
Ahrens858
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by seanb1979
YOU ALL RUSE

g


you better hope its not higher than 7, then ud be fucked.
 
HEY YOU GUYS
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
didn't anyone here play QB ever? maybe know someone who did.

just ask someone if it makes one difference how tall they were when they played qb

if drew brees is shorter than me and I am assuming all of his O linemen are typical monsters like other nfl teams so height doesn't mean shiznit.


So 1 good QB who is short means height means nothing?

Can't beat that logic. But seriously, name off the top 20 quarterbacks in the past 20 years. I'd like to see how many of them are 6'0 and under, hell even 6'1.
 
jktooley
offline
Link
 
Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
didn't anyone here play QB ever? maybe know someone who did.

just ask someone if it makes one difference how tall they were when they played qb

if drew brees is shorter than me and I am assuming all of his O linemen are typical monsters like other nfl teams so height doesn't mean shiznit.


brees has one of, if not THE fastest drop in the NFL. He's in position to throw faster than pretty much every other QB in the league... He's also insanely accurate and has a tight spiral... Brees is a rare case, and it's because he has enough working in his favor to overcome his height...

Originally posted by http://bleacherreport.com/articles/175748-black-and-gold-xs-and-os-why-is-drew-brees-so-good

Black and Gold X's and O's | Why Is Drew Brees SO Good?
Will Osgood


I am writing this about an hour after the Anaheim Ducks were eliminated from the Stanley Cup Playoffs in an epic Game Seven matchup. I needed something to cheer me up, and the first thing I thought of was how amazing of a season Saints QB Drew Brees had a season ago.

For those of you who regularly read my columns, I appreciate stats, but do not like to make too much out of them. That is why 5,069 yards isn't as impressive to me as the way Drew Brees plays the position. It is like watching Leonardo Da Vinci paint the Mona Lisa or Michelangelo creating the Sistine Chapel. Simply said, it's a thing of beauty.

In my opinion, Brees is undoubtedly the third best QB in the league, but is probably just as good (not better) than Manning and Brady. And here's why I think so:



Feet

Brees has long been one of the most mobile QBs within the pocket. His ability to slide in the pocket to both avoid the rush and create his own throwing lanes is so valuable and helps the offensive line look good.

Feet also play a role in his accuracy (more on that later). The fact he can throw off his back foot across his body after sliding to his left, is something you would never coach, but part of what makes Brees so good. He keeps plays alive and with his quick feet is always a threat to pick up a key first down with his feet.



Accuracy

I'm not talking about completion percentage. Completion percentage means zilch, zip, nada to me. I say this because you could give Jake Delhomme a group of receivers that include Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, and Tony Gonzales and the guy's going to register somewhere near a 70 completion percentage.

Likewise, even someone like Peyton Manning isn't going to complete 65 percent if his receivers have bricks for hands like Braylon Edwards, Devery Henderson of 2006 or before, and Robert Royal.

My point in all this is to say that Brees can put the ball right where he wants to place it on the receiver so that he can catch it in stride and gain yards after the catch. That is true accuracy. It is also an ability to throw the ball up the seam to a Tight End, but the throw the ball behind him so that he can adjust and the linebacker or safety cannot.

If you do not believe me about how accurate Brees is, check this out. I bet you can count the number of quarterbacks who can do that, on one hand. I'm 99.9 percent sure Matthew Stafford, JaMarcus Russell, and other strong armed QBs generally not known for accuracy, could not do that.

In fact, Brees has the most accurate deep ball in the entire league, even though he throws more of them than most QBs, and does not have what most would consider to be a top-10 arm among all NFL quarterbacks.



Mental Awareness

Brees is not the only QB this is true of, but Brees is known for spending almost the entire day at the team facility on Tuesdays, the player's day off. Additionally, at Purdue, he was a 4.0 student who graduated in four years.

None of those things prove anything though.

What proves his mental aptitude is Brees' decision-making. He rarely ever throws the ball into coverage, and when he does, he throws it where only his receiver can catch the ball.

The other part of this is Brees' ability to make checks at the line of scrimmage. Sean Payton will often give Brees two plays, and gives Brees the ability to make what is called a "check-with-me" at the line.

That is why you will often see Brees slide his hand across his throat and yell "kill, kill". He is changing the call from the original play to the second. Not every quarterback is given this opportunity, even at the NFL level. The fact Brees does it so successfully, makes him great.



Leadership

By now, pretty much everyone has seen an instance of Brees pumping his team up before a game by chanting "WE ARE NEW ORLEANS"! Needless to say, you don't see too many quarterbacks doing this before, during, or after a game.

Once again, though, this is not what makes Brees such a good leader. What makes him an outstanding leader is his ability to put his team on his back and lead his team down the field, despite having next to no running game. It's his ability to quietly guide an offense with many big-time personalities.

Think back to Nov. 9, at Atlanta. Jeremy Shockey misses a blocking assignment and leaves Brees out to dry. Some quarterbacks would say nothing, and Shockey would've just gone along as if nothing happened.

Instead Brees confronted Shockey and now the two respect each other, and Brees knows Shockey will not make that same mistake again. Look for Brees and Shockey to hook up quite a bit in key situations this season.



That It Factor

When you talk to most coaches and scouts, they'll tell you the difference between a good quarterback and a great one, is that "it factor." Nobody can tell you definitively what it is. But it shows itself in crunch time. It is the way a guy carries himself in the public eye, but also on the practice field.

It is something that can be observed but not explained. It cannot be coached. You either have it or you do not. It produces wins and helps players make big-time plays in big-time games. Only a handful of guys have it.

Among them, I would say are Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and perhaps McNabb. Kurt Warner doesn't necessarily put off it, but the results make it seem as if he does have it. Most scouts and coaches believe Jets First Round pick, Mark Sanchez, has it.

Some ways Brees exhibits it are in the way he deals with the media (a common one), his body language after both good and bad plays (I have a theory that great QBs body language is not that different after a bad throw as it would be after a good one), and the way he'll try to make a block or a tackle, even though QBs are not taught to do such things.

I admit I have a man crush on Brees (just kidding, sort of), but these factors show that Brees is as good a QB as there is in today's NFL.
 
Page:
 


You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.