Warrior General Games

Originally posted by FairForever
I am pretty confident a Salty win would flip them. Two spots is not a lot until you get to the top of the ladder - at the end of the day both teams are in high-quality J-Man ladder level and there has been some movement between the teams in this portion.

Obviously we are unlikely to ever find out given the matchup is not likely to happen.

I would agree but only if you can explain how salty jumped 7 spots on PORN while playing lower ranked opponents the whole time with exception to the HAHA playoff game and one pro team with a ranking in the 40s. Either it wasn't a strong 9 spot lead or it's still a heavy lead just not many teams in between their ELO rankings.

Originally posted by jfbueno
I would agree but only if you can explain how salty jumped 7 spots on PORN while playing lower ranked opponents the whole time with exception to the HAHA playoff game and one pro team with a ranking in the 40s. Either it wasn't a strong 9 spot lead or it's still a heavy lead just not many teams in between their ELO rankings.

You're thinking too much about a tier ranking matchup. At the end of the day, a lot of those teams like East Coast Dragons are only a handful of spots above PORN. A win over Jameis while Salty has an easier opponent, for example, is pretty much negated by Salty beating HAHA while you beat on EZSB in the playoffs.

EDIT: Actually, I bet that in a vacuum, only considering those two games, Salty actually gained ELO net.

110
141
192
204
96
91
= 834

vs

207
68
82
125
180
108

= 752

Salty's league schedule (last 6 regular season games - so doesn't include first round of playoffs) also appears to be significantly harder than PORN's from a ranking perspective - that's like beating a team 15 - 16 spots higher on average every single game (I know it sounds ridiculous given that two bottom feeder teams are probably just as easy to beat - but that's not what ELO considers). In fact - when you consider it that way - the only reason PORN is ahead of Salty is because Salty has eaten an extra loss.

I'm too lazy to keep going through the analysis - but if you exclude the 5th and 6th last regular season games (where PORN played 96 and 91) the disparity is even larger (and recency matters with the huge k value increases in seasons 10 and 11).

tldr the ladder system needs a huge revamp. Ridiculous that we won't get to see the two juggernauts in Seasoned play at all this season.

EDIT: I do think PORN is the best team in the tier, by far, for the reasons you mentioned above. They are beating teams in Pro (I'm not counting the Vet team) that are very good. I am just trying to explain why the ladder may not see it that way.

well after all this discussion. At least we get no name vs PORN!!!

As a mention though. Even in rookie two top teams didnt play eachother all year which is sad. Arizona vs Air farce.

Originally posted by FairForever
110
141
192
204
96
91
= 834

vs

207
68
82
125
180
108

= 752

Salty's league schedule (last 6 regular season games - so doesn't include first round of playoffs) also appears to be significantly harder than PORN's from a ranking perspective - that's like beating a team 15 - 16 spots higher on average every single game (I know it sounds ridiculous given that two bottom feeder teams are probably just as easy to beat - but that's not what ELO considers). In fact - when you consider it that way - the only reason PORN is ahead of Salty is because Salty has eaten an extra loss.

I'm too lazy to keep going through the analysis - but if you exclude the 5th and 6th last regular season games (where PORN played 96 and 91) the disparity is even larger (and recency matters with the huge k value increases in seasons 10 and 11).

tldr the ladder system needs a huge revamp. Ridiculous that we won't get to see the two juggernauts in Seasoned play at all this season.

EDIT: I do think PORN is the best team in the tier, by far, for the reasons you mentioned above. They are beating teams in Pro (I'm not counting the Vet team) that are very good. I am just trying to explain why the ladder may not see it that way.

Salty's league schedule is tougher via ELO rankings. PORNs ladder schedule has been tougher via ELO rankings (or at least relative to what rank the opponents were before they played). You might not be able to tell who had tougher the tougher overall schedule but I'm just not sure how big a gap PORN has on Salty. All I know now is PORN has a tough matchup against No Name and Salty has a very easy game against a team with lesser ELO

Originally posted by jfbueno
Salty's league schedule is tougher via ELO rankings. PORNs ladder schedule has been tougher via ELO rankings (or at least relative to what rank the opponents were before they played). You might not be able to tell who had tougher the tougher overall schedule but I'm just not sure how big a gap PORN has on Salty. All I know now is PORN has a tough matchup against No Name and Salty has a very easy game against a team with lesser ELO

Yep. Still a great matchup. PORN wins and they probably stay ahead. Even if they lose they may stay ahead cause Salty got a really low-ranked opponent.

I'm excited to face off vs you guys though

At least we had panty in league and played salty early.

Wish we had played more top teams in the tier, I think EEA is better than everyone gives them credit, still painful to watch them try to run though.

Originally posted by mutleyddmc DTD
well after all this discussion. At least we get no name vs PORN!!!

As a mention though. Even in rookie two top teams didnt play eachother all year which is sad. Arizona vs Air farce.

Well... thats not entirely true. Geneva and Arizona were 1 & 2 for awhile and we played each other near the beginning of the season. If Farce kept moving on the ladder (which they did) it would make it more difficult for those two to play each other

Originally posted by o The Boss x
At least we had panty in league and played salty early.

Wish we had played more top teams in the tier, I think EEA is better than everyone gives them credit, still painful to watch them try to run though.

I think being top 5 in this tier is an accomplishment. I think EEA just naturally gets a little less credit than they deserve because they weren't a top team in rookie or soph. They appear to be a top team starting this past season but it's harder for other people to see when they don't really get to play a lot of the top teams.

You guys held PORN in check though - lots of kudos to you.

Originally posted by mutleyddmc DTD
well after all this discussion. At least we get no name vs PORN!!!

As a mention though. Even in rookie two top teams didnt play eachother all year which is sad. Arizona vs Air farce.

At least you got to play most of the top teams. No Name has literally not played anyone in the tier except the first ladder game and now the last one.

eea is still a very good team. i dont know why anyone would write them off at all.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
still painful to watch them try to run though.

you and everyone else.

Originally posted by dredgar
eea is still a very good team. i dont know why anyone would write them off at all.

Probably has to do with the fact that they're in PORN's league. Either way they're a top 3-5 team in the tier so kind of hard to overlook them.

The benevolent HKD send their thanks for all of the comedy (intentional or not) that GE and the EZSB has given this tier over the past few months by sending them out winners in their last ever game.

Good luck to you in Plan B.

SPENDING ALL THAT SP TODAY...
...FEELS SO GOOD...
...JOURNEYMAN HERE WE COME!


Portland Ronin are ready.

Originally posted by pastim
The benevolent HKD send their thanks for all of the comedy (intentional or not) that GE and the EZSB has given this tier over the past few months by sending them out winners in their last ever game.

Good luck to you in Plan B.



GG...off to phase II!

I'll still visit this thread.