Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rob.
I agree that builds matter and it is important to remember that. But is everyone building wrong or are counters just too strong?

This, if we are all building players wrong for stopping counters, then fuck, this game is more complex than I thought.

Originally posted by mutleyddmc DTD
I wasn't around for the worst of GL rushes but I remember the start of them and you could use any QB for it.

As someone already pointed out, that is still true in rookie. In Vet, that wasn't the case.

In vet it was certainly the case (in season 8 ish) that a non running QB could see huge gains on the GL QB rollout.

Originally posted by MadCow420
This, if we are all building players wrong for stopping counters, then fuck, this game is more complex than I thought.





I think it is more complex than that. I dont think we are building wrong its just that Counter became this OP and the players were were building were being built to stop something else and the areas we neglected are now being taken advantage of by the Counters (hence the term Counter). In my history here since Season 3 it goes in waves. The GL spam was big and people started to build their Defense as more run stoppers. Than Passing got Op and people who built their D for run was getting torched by Passing game. Then people started building for stopping the pass. and there was a period was the running game was a grind out type of game and the All Run teams struggled. Than they made a slight adjustment and boom here comes the run game roaring back and with the same adjustments the passing game got knocked back a bit. SO now players who built to stop the passing game are getting ripped by run teams....(poor BRB, Tackling skills, etc.). There are some agents who anticipated these changes and/or are just a level above everyone else when it comes to building players and have taken advantage of these adjustments over the seasons. I do think the Counter is very powerful and the amount of long TD runs that it produces is ridiculous.

For Example Hall of Fame had a stretch were they scored 100 points in 6 straight game and their RB (by the way they only carry one, because they dont need anyone else) rushed for 1,000 yards (topping over 1200 in one game) three times. I think we all know who the Mastermind behind Hall of Fame is....

Other teams have tried to mimic Hall of Fame and they have had success, but not to the level that Rob. has... Point being is counters are powerful and need a tweak but there are glaring issue when you combine builds, S* players, and tactics....and these are controlled by the agents, coordinators, owners.

I tell you what the Hall Fame v. Absolut Final should be interesting. They have combined for over 18,000 rushing yards in just their league games. And their first match up was a barn burner. 69-40 (Hall of Fame) http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/230872

It should be a good one. Lets see who can limit who the most.

For Big I HB Counter Sweep Left

There are 27 Defensive plays that have yielded less than 4.00 YPC, out of 123 at Vet this season. Only 2 plays have done this when called more than 10 times.

There have been 47 plays called against Big I HB Counter Sweep Left at least 10 times.
Of these, 2 plays have averages against less than 3.00 yards.
There are 4 plays that have averages against between 3 and 6 yards.
There are 41 plays that are giving up more than 6 yards.
Of these, 29 plays give up more than 10 yards on average.

Think about that - 29 Defensive Calls (61.7% of the 47) give up a First Down (on average) on EVERY PLAY. Passing has never been that OP.

If 41 out of the 47 different Defensive plays (87.2%) called against are considered failures (6+ yards per play is a failure in my view), how is this a build issue when this is Global Data?

Originally posted by Xars
For Big I HB Counter Sweep Left


Think about that - 29 Defensive Calls (61.7% of the 47) give up a First Down (on average) on EVERY PLAY. Passing has never been that OP.


This and Rob's point that Run averages are higher than Pass averages per play are the 2 things that have stuck with me from this thread, that and DD is terrible at this game.

Originally posted by Xars
For Big I HB Counter Sweep Left

There are 27 Defensive plays that have yielded less than 4.00 YPC, out of 123 at Vet this season. Only 2 plays have done this when called more than 10 times.

There have been 47 plays called against Big I HB Counter Sweep Left at least 10 times.
Of these, 2 plays have averages against less than 3.00 yards.
There are 4 plays that have averages against between 3 and 6 yards.
There are 41 plays that are giving up more than 6 yards.
Of these, 29 plays give up more than 10 yards on average.

Think about that - 29 Defensive Calls (61.7% of the 47) give up a First Down (on average) on EVERY PLAY. Passing has never been that OP.

If 41 out of the 47 different Defensive plays (87.2%) called against are considered failures (6+ yards per play is a failure in my view), how is this a build issue when this is Global Data?

Statistics can be shifted to make any argument stronger. The Devil is in the details. Look deeper and tell me the attributes of all players on the field for defensive when each of those plays were called. Point out who had the required attributes to combat a counter and who didnt. Than tell me what was the attributes of the run blockers on offense. the combinations of RBT, RBP, Lead Block Awr, quickness, Speed, Run Blk Awr and compare those to their defensive counterparts.

I say all this not to say that its not Op, its more than just the OP. If everyone is doing it why doesnt every team have 20 plus wins and 7500 yard HBs.

Originally posted by MadCow420
This and Rob's point that Run averages are higher than Pass averages per play are the 2 things that have stuck with me from this thread, that and DD is terrible at this game.

No argument there!

Originally posted by Nigerian Nightmare
Statistics can be shifted to make any argument stronger. The Devil is in the details. Look deeper and tell me the attributes of all players on the field for defensive when each of those plays were called. Point out who had the required attributes to combat a counter and who didnt. Than tell me what was the attributes of the run blockers on offense. the combinations of RBT, RBP, Lead Block Awr, quickness, Speed, Run Blk Awr and compare those to their defensive counterparts.

I say all this not to say that its not Op, its more than just the OP. If everyone is doing it why doesnt every team have 20 plus wins and 7500 yard HBs.

On one hand, I want to say "no shit builds matter". On the other, I'm like - "Are you a moron?"

Of course the builds matter, but Global Data "normalizes" that a lot. These aren't small sample sizes when it's data after 28 games of a 30 game season.

I seriously doubt if I look at the best Passing seasons I'm going to find TE Drive with a 100% First Down catch (on average) against 62% / 29 different Defensive play calls.

That's the equivalency.

The starting point of adjustment of the PLAY is way more of an issue than the BUILDS of the players executing it. That comes later.

Originally posted by Xars

There have been 47 plays called against Big I HB Counter Sweep Left at least 10 times.
Of these, 2 plays have averages against less than 3.00 yards.


Logzilla is averaging 8.4 YPA and 14.7 YPC and 57.5% completion on a play that everyone KNOWS is going to be ran.

That is unbelievable... 57.5% of the time you get a first down on a play.... That everyone KNOWS is coming.

I'll do one better since you do call multiple plays out of the 3 wide.

The ONLY play you run out of the 2TE is SB BIG TE DRIVE. The ONLY PLAY... NOTHING ELSE IS COMING.
Yet 8 YPA and 16.3 YPC 49.3% of the time. Almost half the time the play is guaranteed a first down.

How is that not broken?

Xars all I am saying is that there is more variables than what is being presented. And it is more complex than the arguments being made.

If Bort and Co. make a change in the off season to counters, I am sure those who have continuously been at the top in regards to build and strategy will continue to find ways. Because that's what they do! And the rest of us will be late to the party as usual several steps behind. And by the time we have caught up they will either found a way to mitigate the changes or found ways to take advantage. Than we will be here a couple seasons from now having the same discussion but about another play or so that has been OP'ed. Its the nature of the game that I have come to battle with every season. But I am still here so lets just say I am intrigued with the challenge.

Originally posted by crazieveggie
Logzilla is averaging 8.4 YPA and 14.7 YPC and 57.5% completion on a play that everyone KNOWS is going to be ran.

That is unbelievable... 57.5% of the time you get a first down on a play.... That everyone KNOWS is coming.

I'll do one better since you do call multiple plays out of the 3 wide.

The ONLY play you run out of the 2TE is SB BIG TE DRIVE. The ONLY PLAY... NOTHING ELSE IS COMING.
Yet 8 YPA and 16.3 YPC 49.3% of the time. Almost half the time the play is guaranteed a first down.

How is that not broken?




That's a build issue bro. Keep up.

Originally posted by TxSteve
In vet it was certainly the case (in season 8 ish) that a non running QB could see huge gains on the GL QB rollout.



We'll have to agree to disagree. There is s difference between getting huge gains against a CPU team and getting huge gains against a top 10 ladder team though.

Originally posted by Nigerian Nightmare
Xars all I am saying is that there is more variables than what is being presented. And it is more complex than the arguments being made.

If Bort and Co. make a change in the off season to counters, I am sure those who have continuously been at the top in regards to build and strategy will continue to find ways. Because that's what they do! And the rest of us will be late to the party as usual several steps behind. And by the time we have caught up they will either found a way to mitigate the changes or found ways to take advantage. Than we will be here a couple seasons from now having the same discussion but about another play or so that has been OP'ed. Its the nature of the game that I have come to battle with every season. But I am still here so lets just say I am intrigued with the challenge.



Xars is treating this as a game balance issue, but you are treating it as a puzzle to be solved. Maybe a few teams can figure out the exact perfect builds, formations, and depth charts to "solve the puzzle", but the overall state of the game is still total shit because the average joe teams wont be able to replicate it.