Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
I think high quickness does have a lot of value at WR. Higher than sprinting? Nah. I differ from you and GE about Quickness = Acceleration. It's still very useful, and does help a lot with route running. If you added head fake to Belgarion, he'd be even more of a monster. Just due to his speed/quickness, he's getting surprising separation in some of his breaks.

P.S. haven't decided if I'm bringing some of my other WR's to HAHA, but their end speed is 83 and quickness is 80.

P.P.S. agreed on Slot Machine SA, almost no-one takes it. I think that's kind of damning.

I was pretty confident that GE was wrong about Quickness and Footwork in Zone when he first started posting about it and I decided to go the other way with Sprinting. Thankfully I noticed that I was wrong pretty quickly and have been able to slowly pump up Quickness and Footwork both and have seen a better results.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
I think high quickness does have a lot of value at WR. Higher than sprinting? Nah. I differ from you and GE about Quickness = Acceleration. It's still very useful, and does help a lot with route running. If you added head fake to Belgarion, he'd be even more of a monster. Just due to his speed/quickness, he's getting surprising separation in some of his breaks.

P.S. haven't decided if I'm bringing some of my other WR's to HAHA, but their end speed is 83 and quickness is 80.

P.P.S. agreed on Slot Machine SA, almost no-one takes it. I think that's kind of damning.

Well if your going 80/83 that's pretty high Quickness on a WR. Belgarion is 87/83 so I'd say your in the Quickness camp. Having 100 Quickness with 20 Sprinting would be dumb, but even values seem appropriate.

Head Fake wouldn't be that great on Belgarion because it's powered by RT and RE and effects the RE chance. With his RE at 14, it wouldn't do anything.

His separation is due to his Route Tech and Quickness, in my view. I think high RT and Quickness is better than high RT and RE.

Originally posted by Parab00n
I was pretty confident that GE was wrong about Quickness and Footwork in Zone when he first started posting about it and I decided to go the other way with Sprinting. Thankfully I noticed that I was wrong pretty quickly and have been able to slowly pump up Quickness and Footwork both and have seen a better results.

So GE is right?!?!??!?

Would Quick Feet be a good choice for most Zone players then?

Originally posted by Xars
True. And if he was shifted to WR1/WR2, his offense would suffer because he's built for the routes he runs at WR3. In another thread debating the value of Quickness, it seems I'm the only guy that thinks high Quickness has value.

No...I think quickness is the most important skill for many positions, including short or cutting route WRs.

Originally posted by Parab00n
I was pretty confident that GE was wrong about Quickness and Footwork in Zone when he first started posting about it and I decided to go the other way with Sprinting. Thankfully I noticed that I was wrong pretty quickly and have been able to slowly pump up Quickness and Footwork both and have seen a better results.

Was there any doubt?

Originally posted by Xars
Well if your going 80/83 that's pretty high Quickness on a WR. Belgarion is 87/83 so I'd say your in the Quickness camp. Having 100 Quickness with 20 Sprinting would be dumb, but even values seem appropriate.

Head Fake wouldn't be that great on Belgarion because it's powered by RT and RE and effects the RE chance. With his RE at 14, it wouldn't do anything.

His separation is due to his Route Tech and Quickness, in my view. I think high RT and Quickness is better than high RT and RE.

What about RT, RE, quick and speed? I'm building a speed demon and giving him gold slot SA and head fake. I like the +15 to hands from slot SA. He won't have the best hands but all those skills will be 75+. I'm referring to Starscream.

Originally posted by Parab00n
I was pretty confident that GE was wrong about Quickness and Footwork in Zone when he first started posting about it and I decided to go the other way with Sprinting. Thankfully I noticed that I was wrong pretty quickly and have been able to slowly pump up Quickness and Footwork both and have seen a better results.

Depends on where the players are in Zone. Cover 2, those deep guys need a lot of speed. My Robber/Lurk LB on HAHA, will have considerably higher Quickness than Speed, although I really wish I could've gotten Speed another 10 points higher, caps/attributes/etc didn't work out for that.

Here are my thoughts on Under Zones:

Under Zone's are tough, your guys need to be able to turn on a dime in reaction to throws. You want your guy with Zone Shark to reach the receiver before the defenders without Zone Shark do. You feel sort of like you're playing in a phone booth. Top end speed isn't important, but you still need to be the first guy on the scene for anything in your area. For that, his reaction needs to be high, and Quickness needs to be high. First Step seems like a really good SA for Zone.

HAHA's Zone LB is going Gold EOTP, Gold Zone Shark, and Silver First Step. Although I'm kind of thinking maybe I should respec him for Silver Zone Shark and Gold First Step.

Originally posted by Xars
Head Fake wouldn't be that great on Belgarion because it's powered by RT and RE and effects the RE chance. With his RE at 14, it wouldn't do anything.

I know, more of a "What If" hypothetical. If Belgarion magically had 15k in extra SP, his speed and quickness with RE and Head Fake would be nasty.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Depends on where the players are in Zone. Cover 2, those deep guys need a lot of speed.

Yep...my safeties have a boat load of sprinting. Quickness for zone players are basically those that play underneath covearge...short or medium zones. Mainly LBs and CBs.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
My Robber/Lurk LB on HAHA, will have considerably higher Quickness than Speed, although I really wish I could've gotten Speed another 10 points higher, caps/attributes/etc didn't work out for that.



Give him Gold Eyes on the Prize. +15 to sprint and quick.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero


HAHA's Zone LB is going Gold EOTP, Gold Zone Shark, and Silver First Step. Although I'm kind of thinking maybe I should respec him for Silver Zone Shark and Gold First Step.

Interesting. My underneath guys gold EOTP, Zone Shark and some silver Third Down Stopper and others silver Monster Hit for the knock loose.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Depends on where the players are in Zone. Cover 2, those deep guys need a lot of speed. My Robber/Lurk LB on HAHA, will have considerably higher Quickness than Speed, although I really wish I could've gotten Speed another 10 points higher, caps/attributes/etc didn't work out for that.

Here are my thoughts on Under Zones:

Under Zone's are tough, your guys need to be able to turn on a dime in reaction to throws. You want your guy with Zone Shark to reach the receiver before the defenders without Zone Shark do. You feel sort of like you're playing in a phone booth. Top end speed isn't important, but you still need to be the first guy on the scene for anything in your area. For that, his reaction needs to be high, and Quickness needs to be high. First Step seems like a really good SA for Zone.

HAHA's Zone LB is going Gold EOTP, Gold Zone Shark, and Silver First Step. Although I'm kind of thinking maybe I should respec him for Silver Zone Shark and Gold First Step.

Not in its current format, Sprinting is a detriment to playing over the top. You actually should want the WR to run past your Safety where he actually had a chance of deflecting the pass. If he is just as fast or faster than the WR then he is going to give him a 5 yard cushion and give up an easy catch. That's plan B however, Plan A is to force the QB to throw it quickly just from your DLine before your Underneath guys turn around and start chasing WRs.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Interesting. My underneath guys gold EOTP, Zone Shark and some silver Third Down Stopper and others silver Monster Hit for the knock loose.

All my LBs are Gold Zone Shark, Gold Monster Hit, and Silver EOTP. All my CBs are Gold EOTP, Gold Zone Shark, and Silver Monster Hit. For all passing teams I'm pretty convinced that Cover 2 just isn't going to work, Cover 4 is where it's at.

Here is a good example of quickness and footwork being used in underneath zone coverage. Vader starts off the plays covering the TE, but when the ball is thrown, he leaves the TE and turns to knocks the ball loose from the WR3. That isn't speed...that's quickness and footwork.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/201884/1688026

Running my Cover 4 defense against Mercy Flush in about 20 minutes, hopefully my offense can put up a few points to actually help the defense out.