Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
If normal passing was 60% games would be 120 to 106 and fewer people would be talking about hurries.

Not necessarily if you get there by somehow strengthening short passes at the expense of deeper passes.

Plays like this:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/102684/450292?player_id=35494

Are why most folks just don't bother with short passing. I'd happily dink and dunk my way down the field at a slower pace if it were able to be remotely efficient. If I'm gonna pass for 50-60% though regardless of the depth of the target, I might as well do it trying for 15 yard gains instead of 5 yard gains.

As it is, the only time I do short passing plays is in my short yardage packages. I'm probably wasting my time with them, since I could just do another TE Post, WR Posts, Double Cross, etc and get more yards and a better YPA.

For the 2013 NFL Season, there were 25 QBs that had a 60+% completion percentage. Six were over 65%.

Yet yards per attempt was only greater than 7.0 for 11 teams. Five teams were below 6 yards per attempt.

So what Gal is saying is what everyone who's involved in Passing is saying ... Buff short route completion percentages. You may need to nerf long/med completion percentages.

Maybe Stobie can run completion data by Pass Distance... Hint hint.

I doubt he can - because pass distance doesn't show up in the play by play.

Probably only Corndog could run a script to determine distance down field for pass and completion percents.

Originally posted by Galithor
Not necessarily if you get there by somehow strengthening short passes at the expense of deeper passes.

Plays like this:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/102684/450292?player_id=35494

Are why most folks just don't bother with short passing. I'd happily dink and dunk my way down the field at a slower pace if it were able to be remotely efficient. If I'm gonna pass for 50-60% though regardless of the depth of the target, I might as well do it trying for 15 yard gains instead of 5 yard gains.

As it is, the only time I do short passing plays is in my short yardage packages. I'm probably wasting my time with them, since I could just do another TE Post, WR Posts, Double Cross, etc and get more yards and a better YPA.

What they need to do is have a short, medium and long accuracy skill. Obviously make the long skill much harder to raise than the short skill. I know it adds more skills to the QB but they should get rid of drop back grip or some other stupid skills.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
What they need to do is have a short, medium and long accuracy skill. Obviously make the long skill much harder to raise than the short skill. I know it adds more skills to the QB but they should get rid of drop back grip or some other stupid skills.

Drop back grip is important (though it should just be carrying grip and have it affect both), it is the drop back power that is useless.

Galactic, Passing Power more or less accomplishes what you're talking about.

In any event, I don't think the short passing game issues are necessarily a QB focused issue. I'm more inclined to think it's a reception awareness issue when dealing with the smaller amount of "ball in flight" time on a short route. If the QB is on the money with the throw, no big deal, but if they're even slightly off, how often does the receiver not even really have a chance to pass a reception awareness roll on a short pass? The lack of time to adjust to the ball's flight path may make catch rolls massively harder than they otherwise would appear to be.

Originally posted by Xars
For the 2013 NFL Season, there were 25 QBs that had a 60+% completion percentage. Six were over 65%.

Yet yards per attempt was only greater than 7.0 for 11 teams. Five teams were below 6 yards per attempt.

So what Gal is saying is what everyone who's involved in Passing is saying ... Buff short route completion percentages. You may need to nerf long/med completion percentages.

Maybe Stobie can run completion data by Pass Distance... Hint hint.




Are we talking about play pass distance, all I can do is do it based on play type short/med/long as I don't have the stats broken out by in air distance and yac distance.

Originally posted by Stobie
Are we talking about play pass distance, all I can do is do it based on play type short/med/long as I don't have the stats broken out by in air distance and yac distance.

Honestly, just doing it by play type would probably be pretty informative. Between Short/Medium/Long.

I know this is going to be hard to read but here is the data dump of it. I hate we can't format via tabs etc...

Hurry.....Distance.....Tier.....Attempts.....Comp%.....FellInc%.....Drop%.....Unable%.....Interc%.....Deflect%.....Knocked%
HURRY.....Screen.....Rookie.....196.....46.9388.....16.3462.....53.8462.....10.5769.....0.9615.....17.3077.....0.0000
NORMAL.....Screen.....Rookie.....1357.....58.2805.....5.2061.....63.7744.....15.4013.....0.2169.....10.4121.....3.4707
HURRY.....Short.....Rookie.....2843.....43.8621.....10.5890.....34.1479.....43.4211.....0.5013.....7.2682.....4.0727
NORMAL.....Short.....Rookie.....27049.....48.8839.....8.9854.....35.3409.....39.5617.....0.6575.....5.7386.....4.6023
HURRY.....Medium.....Rookie.....6293.....43.0319.....11.5202.....32.8591.....43.8494.....0.8089.....6.6946.....4.2399
NORMAL.....Medium.....Rookie.....48594.....46.8847.....10.3382.....31.5759.....42.6371.....0.5748.....5.5912.....4.5179
HURRY.....Long.....Rookie.....4873.....37.7180.....16.5074.....28.7315.....43.5585.....0.8237.....6.2932.....4.0857
NORMAL.....Long.....Rookie.....27219.....40.3833.....13.5985.....26.7683.....41.7401.....0.5954.....4.4137.....4.2550
HURRY.....Screen.....Sophomore.....182.....51.6484.....14.7727.....56.8182.....4.5455.....0.0000.....21.5909.....2.2727
NORMAL.....Screen.....Sophomore.....1131.....63.4512.....3.5191.....58.6510.....15.2493.....0.5865.....16.4223.....4.1056
HURRY.....Short.....Sophomore.....1903.....45.8224.....10.4753.....27.8371.....42.5800.....0.8729.....12.5121.....5.6256
NORMAL.....Short.....Sophomore.....17882.....53.9212.....10.9202.....30.9362.....38.4072.....1.0654.....9.3088.....5.3269
HURRY.....Medium.....Sophomore.....5746.....46.7804.....13.7345.....30.2485.....39.5356.....1.2099.....10.3009.....4.9379
NORMAL.....Medium.....Sophomore.....42709.....53.1160.....13.4747.....28.7773.....38.6569.....1.0658.....9.6366.....5.9090
HURRY.....Long.....Sophomore.....3656.....41.3020.....18.4995.....26.3747.....39.7018.....0.8854.....10.5778.....3.9609
NORMAL.....Long.....Sophomore.....15888.....45.7094.....16.7724.....25.0649.....39.0539.....0.9086.....8.0761.....5.0043
HURRY.....Screen.....Seasoned.....122.....59.8361.....14.2857.....61.2245.....2.0408.....2.0408.....20.4082.....0.0000
NORMAL.....Screen.....Seasoned.....1031.....71.0779.....4.0590.....47.9705.....19.5572.....0.0000.....24.3542.....3.3210
HURRY.....Short.....Seasoned.....1468.....45.3678.....10.9726.....24.4389.....45.7606.....0.9975.....13.8404.....3.9900
NORMAL.....Short.....Seasoned.....10446.....54.6530.....11.5420.....24.1270.....41.4059.....1.4966.....15.1020.....4.9887
HURRY.....Medium.....Seasoned.....3964.....45.8123.....13.1750.....23.1378.....42.2253.....1.3035.....15.1769.....4.7486
NORMAL.....Medium.....Seasoned.....26818.....52.7910.....13.7292.....21.1021.....41.9650.....1.3499.....14.7715.....5.8180
HURRY.....Long.....Seasoned.....2735.....44.5704.....18.4037.....21.2401.....40.1055.....1.2533.....13.5884.....5.3430
NORMAL.....Long.....Seasoned.....10232.....49.2143.....18.1614.....18.7220.....39.5964.....1.2108.....14.1256.....5.8520
HURRY.....Screen.....Journeyman.....69.....50.7246.....5.8824.....52.9412.....5.8824.....2.9412.....26.4706.....5.8824
NORMAL.....Screen.....Journeyman.....504.....73.8255.....2.5641.....44.4444.....21.3675.....0.8547.....23.9316.....6.8376
HURRY.....Short.....Journeyman.....782.....50.1279.....7.4359.....19.7436.....48.2051.....0.7692.....18.4615.....5.1282
NORMAL.....Short.....Journeyman.....7113.....56.6107.....10.6888.....20.4276.....40.8890.....1.6288.....19.2399.....6.0400
HURRY.....Medium.....Journeyman.....3038.....46.8729.....12.1437.....19.0211.....43.3086.....1.4250.....19.5167.....4.5849
NORMAL.....Medium.....Journeyman.....23243.....54.7380.....14.0715.....18.8626.....38.8425.....1.7111.....18.6714.....6.7237
HURRY.....Long.....Journeyman.....1874.....44.5037.....18.6538.....13.5577.....40.4808.....1.6346.....19.7115.....5.8654
NORMAL.....Long.....Journeyman.....6533.....49.3995.....18.4039.....14.4135.....39.2845.....1.4792.....16.9935.....7.6023
HURRY.....Screen.....Professional.....159.....61.0063.....6.4516.....46.7742.....12.9032.....1.6129.....30.6452.....1.6129
NORMAL.....Screen.....Professional.....2027.....77.2937.....0.4515.....50.7901.....16.2528.....0.9029.....26.6366.....4.7404
HURRY.....Short.....Professional.....1122.....47.6827.....11.5843.....17.8876.....41.9080.....1.7036.....20.4429.....6.4736
NORMAL.....Short.....Professional.....12039.....56.3892.....10.7899.....17.4817.....39.8535.....2.3362.....22.8074.....5.6226
HURRY.....Medium.....Professional.....3742.....45.3768.....12.3777.....15.6556.....41.4384.....1.7613.....22.9941.....5.7241
NORMAL.....Medium.....Professional.....33051.....50.5195.....14.4008.....14.2612.....39.9607.....2.1506.....21.8169.....6.3440
HURRY.....Long.....Professional.....3149.....43.1883.....18.1107.....14.1420.....40.2459.....2.0682.....19.8994.....5.3661
NORMAL.....Long.....Professional.....14645.....48.7714.....17.5303.....12.3626.....40.0714.....1.9843.....19.0293.....6.9807

Reformatted:

Normal

Rookie Comp% Att
Screen 58.2 1,357
Short 48.88 27,049
Medium 46.88 48,594
Long 40.38 27,219

Soph Comp% Att
Screen 63.45 1,131
Short 53.92 17,882
Medium 53.11 42,709
Long 45.7 15,888

Season Comp% Att
Screen 71.07 1,031
Short 54.65 10,446
Medium 52.79 26,818
Long 49.21 10,232

Journey Comp% Att
Screen 73.82 504
Short 56.61 7,113
Medium 54.73 23,243
Long 49.39 6,533

Pro Comp% Att
Screen 77.29 2,027
Short 56.38 12,039
Medium 50.51 33,051
Long 48.77 14,645

I added attempts to show the mix of game plans. Clearly, OCs have determined that the best risk/reward is to skew heavily to Medium passes.

thanks xars and stobie.

Isn't the data a little flawed since you can put "long" passes in as "medium" --- and wouldn't those show in this data as "medium"?

Originally posted by TxSteve
thanks xars and stobie.

Isn't the data a little flawed since you can put "long" passes in as "medium" --- and wouldn't those show in this data as "medium"?



No, it shows what the play is designed for and not what the OC calls it.

Ah - thanks.

Originally posted by Stobie
I know this is going to be hard to read but here is the data dump of it. I hate we can't format via tabs etc...

Hurry.....Distance.....Tier.....Attempts.....Comp%.....FellInc%.....Drop%.....Unable%.....Interc%.....Deflect%.....Knocked%
HURRY.....Screen.....Rookie.....196.....46.9388.....16.3462.....53.8462.....10.5769.....0.9615.....17.3077.....0.0000
NORMAL.....Screen.....Rookie.....1357.....58.2805.....5.2061.....63.7744.....15.4013.....0.2169.....10.4121.....3.4707
HURRY.....Short.....Rookie.....2843.....43.8621.....10.5890.....34.1479.....43.4211.....0.5013.....7.2682.....4.0727
NORMAL.....Short.....Rookie.....27049.....48.8839.....8.9854.....35.3409.....39.5617.....0.6575.....5.7386.....4.6023
HURRY.....Medium.....Rookie.....6293.....43.0319.....11.5202.....32.8591.....43.8494.....0.8089.....6.6946.....4.2399
NORMAL.....Medium.....Rookie.....48594.....46.8847.....10.3382.....31.5759.....42.6371.....0.5748.....5.5912.....4.5179
HURRY.....Long.....Rookie.....4873.....37.7180.....16.5074.....28.7315.....43.5585.....0.8237.....6.2932.....4.0857
NORMAL.....Long.....Rookie.....27219.....40.3833.....13.5985.....26.7683.....41.7401.....0.5954.....4.4137.....4.2550
HURRY.....Screen.....Sophomore.....182.....51.6484.....14.7727.....56.8182.....4.5455.....0.0000.....21.5909.....2.2727
NORMAL.....Screen.....Sophomore.....1131.....63.4512.....3.5191.....58.6510.....15.2493.....0.5865.....16.4223.....4.1056
HURRY.....Short.....Sophomore.....1903.....45.8224.....10.4753.....27.8371.....42.5800.....0.8729.....12.5121.....5.6256
NORMAL.....Short.....Sophomore.....17882.....53.9212.....10.9202.....30.9362.....38.4072.....1.0654.....9.3088.....5.3269
HURRY.....Medium.....Sophomore.....5746.....46.7804.....13.7345.....30.2485.....39.5356.....1.2099.....10.3009.....4.9379
NORMAL.....Medium.....Sophomore.....42709.....53.1160.....13.4747.....28.7773.....38.6569.....1.0658.....9.6366.....5.9090
HURRY.....Long.....Sophomore.....3656.....41.3020.....18.4995.....26.3747.....39.7018.....0.8854.....10.5778.....3.9609
NORMAL.....Long.....Sophomore.....15888.....45.7094.....16.7724.....25.0649.....39.0539.....0.9086.....8.0761.....5.0043
HURRY.....Screen.....Seasoned.....122.....59.8361.....14.2857.....61.2245.....2.0408.....2.0408.....20.4082.....0.0000
NORMAL.....Screen.....Seasoned.....1031.....71.0779.....4.0590.....47.9705.....19.5572.....0.0000.....24.3542.....3.3210
HURRY.....Short.....Seasoned.....1468.....45.3678.....10.9726.....24.4389.....45.7606.....0.9975.....13.8404.....3.9900
NORMAL.....Short.....Seasoned.....10446.....54.6530.....11.5420.....24.1270.....41.4059.....1.4966.....15.1020.....4.9887
HURRY.....Medium.....Seasoned.....3964.....45.8123.....13.1750.....23.1378.....42.2253.....1.3035.....15.1769.....4.7486
NORMAL.....Medium.....Seasoned.....26818.....52.7910.....13.7292.....21.1021.....41.9650.....1.3499.....14.7715.....5.8180
HURRY.....Long.....Seasoned.....2735.....44.5704.....18.4037.....21.2401.....40.1055.....1.2533.....13.5884.....5.3430
NORMAL.....Long.....Seasoned.....10232.....49.2143.....18.1614.....18.7220.....39.5964.....1.2108.....14.1256.....5.8520
HURRY.....Screen.....Journeyman.....69.....50.7246.....5.8824.....52.9412.....5.8824.....2.9412.....26.4706.....5.8824
NORMAL.....Screen.....Journeyman.....504.....73.8255.....2.5641.....44.4444.....21.3675.....0.8547.....23.9316.....6.8376
HURRY.....Short.....Journeyman.....782.....50.1279.....7.4359.....19.7436.....48.2051.....0.7692.....18.4615.....5.1282
NORMAL.....Short.....Journeyman.....7113.....56.6107.....10.6888.....20.4276.....40.8890.....1.6288.....19.2399.....6.0400
HURRY.....Medium.....Journeyman.....3038.....46.8729.....12.1437.....19.0211.....43.3086.....1.4250.....19.5167.....4.5849
NORMAL.....Medium.....Journeyman.....23243.....54.7380.....14.0715.....18.8626.....38.8425.....1.7111.....18.6714.....6.7237
HURRY.....Long.....Journeyman.....1874.....44.5037.....18.6538.....13.5577.....40.4808.....1.6346.....19.7115.....5.8654
NORMAL.....Long.....Journeyman.....6533.....49.3995.....18.4039.....14.4135.....39.2845.....1.4792.....16.9935.....7.6023
HURRY.....Screen.....Professional.....159.....61.0063.....6.4516.....46.7742.....12.9032.....1.6129.....30.6452.....1.6129
NORMAL.....Screen.....Professional.....2027.....77.2937.....0.4515.....50.7901.....16.2528.....0.9029.....26.6366.....4.7404
HURRY.....Short.....Professional.....1122.....47.6827.....11.5843.....17.8876.....41.9080.....1.7036.....20.4429.....6.4736
NORMAL.....Short.....Professional.....12039.....56.3892.....10.7899.....17.4817.....39.8535.....2.3362.....22.8074.....5.6226
HURRY.....Medium.....Professional.....3742.....45.3768.....12.3777.....15.6556.....41.4384.....1.7613.....22.9941.....5.7241
NORMAL.....Medium.....Professional.....33051.....50.5195.....14.4008.....14.2612.....39.9607.....2.1506.....21.8169.....6.3440
HURRY.....Long.....Professional.....3149.....43.1883.....18.1107.....14.1420.....40.2459.....2.0682.....19.8994.....5.3661
NORMAL.....Long.....Professional.....14645.....48.7714.....17.5303.....12.3626.....40.0714.....1.9843.....19.0293.....6.9807


There's a wikitables greasemonkey script that works for GLB forums. Might work for GLB2, too.

Hurry

Rookie Comp% Att
Screen 46.93 196
Short 43.86 2,843
Medium 43.03 6,293
Long 37.71 4,873

Soph Comp% Att
Screen 51.64 182
Short 45.82 1,903
Medium 46.78 5,746
Long 41.30 3,656

Season Comp% Att
Screen 59.83 122
Short 45.36 1,468
Medium 45.81 3,964
Long 44.57 2,735

Journey Comp% Att
Screen 50.72 69
Short 50.12 782
Medium 46.87 3,038
Long 44.50 1,874

Pro Comp% Att
Screen 61.00 159
Short 47.68 1,122
Medium 45.37 3,742
Long 43.18 3,149