Warrior General Games

will my dot even make the GLB LAWL OF FAME if he plays outside a HARDCORE league


lol

I don't really comment on changes because I'll adapt as best I can and take it as a challenge.

But this salary cap change would be end game for me.


I have a team of 55 guys. I have spent money to build these players. I spend time going through the forums and discussing build strategies to build the best players I can. I tweak tactics and lineups. Bottom line I invest time and money into this game to give me the best chance of winning.

And now with this proposed salary cap change I am going to be penalized for my work? You guys talk about super teams like it's not fair. How the hell do you make super teams? Having a bunch of great builds? How the hell do you learn how to make great builds? You spend time and money making these players.

I don't see how penalizing the people who invest the most into this game makes sense.

You might as well not keep score when playing the games so someone doesn't lose. That would be the most fair right?

so there will be a 'hardcore' WL and a separate 'regular' WL?? same for Pros?

/dont get it

Originally posted by ChicagoTRS
it would take about an hour of time per season...there was already detailed cookie cutter plans floating around private forums today...that would make it public shortly...

any well run team would be running 100 morale to open every game after the first season or two...

Then what is the point of having it at all? If everyone could do it why waste an hour of anyone's time?

Originally posted by Bort
Catch made me do it!

Honestly, though, from lots of lurking and reading I've done, there's definitely plenty of people who would rather not have to deal with finances at all, or very little at least. IMO, there's three types of people who we are dealing with here, and they have different goals. They can be summed up by what mode they choose on Madden or any other sports video game:

- Hardcore players who want to think about everything. They choose "franchise" mode and select the worst team, trying to build them up. They would really like our original plan, but there's probably not as many of them as there are of the other two.
- The average player, who doesn't mind a little thinking, but doesn't want to be bothered too much. They choose "season" mode with their favorite team, and just play through, maybe making a few trades.
- The casual player, who just wants to get into it without hassle. They choose "quick play" with their favorite team vs a random opponent.

Hardcore leagues would be created with all the new bells and whistles, so the hardcore guys can get the "full" experience.
Normal leagues would need a much more simple financial system with a few choices, for the average player.
Casual or super casual leagues cover the guys who just want to play.

Average probably outweighs hardcore by a fair margin, and probably casual too.


I honestly don't know if there is an "in between" financial system out there for the average leagues. Anything stripped down doesn't really cover the bases you need in a financial system, and is therefore superfluous or limiting. Not exactly in an easy spot here.

I can agree with all of that,

I still think you should stick to your vision of what you want and people will adapt.

I was happy with the system we already have now,just wished equipment cost was lowered a bit.

If the salary cap is trying to get the teams to be a bit more balanced roster wise, than what's the need for regular, competitive and elite leagues (or AA, AAA, Pro and WL). I mean I thought the idea was just to pull teams of equal skill and let them play each other.

It's working too... my 22 competitive league really is competitive. My 30 elite league is the league of death (in a good way). I don't think there really NEEDS to be a force roster "smoothing out"

I mean look at it this way, player builds are only a portion of what makes a good team (and probably a small portion at that). Game plans are a heavy part of what makes a good team vs a bad team. So even if you gave all the team the same roster of studs, you'd still have the same teams pulling out ahead of the other teams.

So imo, let the good teams pull ahead... and then stick them in an elite league with all the other teams pulling ahead. They'll all probably have good dots and good coordinators. Let the teams with worse dots / coordinators go into the competitive leagues, and the really bad teams go into the regular leagues.

I guess I just don't really see a need for a salary cap (at least not one like it's listed here).

----------------------------------

btw, I didn't really have any major problems with the previous idea. The main thing that worried me was that there was already a large number of teams hurting financially in this system, and the proposed system was significantly more indepth. I was a bit worried that some of those less experienced, less mathematically informed owners would sink even faster. (Like tying a lead belt to someone who already could barely swim)

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
Originally posted by ChicagoTRS

it would take about an hour of time per season...there was already detailed cookie cutter plans floating around private forums today...that would make it public shortly...

any well run team would be running 100 morale to open every game after the first season or two...

Then what is the point of having it at all? If everyone could do it why waste an hour of anyone's time?

Because it adds some strategy and complexity to the game - especially on the financial front where it is currently 1-dimensional. Just because everyone could take care of it with a few hours in the offseason, doesn't mean that everyone can do it RIGHT.

I'd like to see Catch or Bort have to recruit with this bullshit added

no fucking clue

The reason salary caps work in real life are the same things that make salary caps untenable in an MMO like this.

1. The most important reason is that Real Life is a team's market. Players aren't technically forced to sign with the team that drafts them, but I don't think there has ever been a player that didn't. The draft allows teams to actually go out and say, "I'm going to hire this player, he's going to really help this team go to the next level". That does not exist in GLB. There is no mechanism for getting players to play on a team they don't want to play for. In RL, you can trade for or draft a player and he'll play for you, because otherwise he makes no money that entire year. In GLB, there's nothing you can do if a player just doesn't want to play for your team. Technically you can trade for him, but, yeah, I don't remember the last time I saw an actual player trade, especially without the player's direct approval.

And you know what? That isn't a bad thing. GLB is billed as an MMO. It's right up there on the top banner -- "American Football MMORPG". Part of being an MMO is playing with your friends in a guild/clan/house/team. If there were mechanics to force people to play on teams they didn't want to play for, they would just quit. Why shouldn't they? Their livelihood isn't dependent on it. This is a game that they're supposed to play for fun. It's generally not fun being on a team that you can't stand. Imagine if you were playing World of Warcraft, but you couldn't decide which server or faction or guild your character was on. It would not be even close to the most popular MMO on the planet in that situation.

2. Another reason that makes salary caps work in real life that doesn't translate to GLB is that players actually have stuff to spend money on. Players actually want more money because they can spend it on luxury yachts, fancy cars, home entertainment systems that rival theater complexes, and other such things. Players almost invariably try to get as much money out of the team as they can (occasionally you'll get players who voluntarily short their own salary to help a team out, but they're very rare compared to the total number of contracted players). That doesn't exist in GLB. Players have absolutely nothing at all to spend money on. Literally. With the training and equipment system change, player money is just a point counter. It's useless. That means players have zero incentive to actually negotiate a higher salary, which means there's no reason for owners to pay them anything but minimum wage, which means the salary cap is doomed from the start.

Now, you can try to force the issue, like the revised proposal does by dictating the salary amount, but that's just a very heavy-handed bandaid that doesn't address the root problem. Fix the disease, not the symptom, if you're going to institute a salary cap. EDIT: Also, just throwing in meaningless "bling" items won't do a thing to fix this issue, because meaningless items by definition have no meaning. There's still no incentive to make more money so you can buy something that is completely useless.

3. The third reason that salary caps work IRL but not in GLB is that teams are really frakking expensive. There are several teams in the NFL that do not make a profit (I make this statement because I know for a fact that the Jaguars aren't making a profit currently, and despite the media attention they aren't the worst-off team as far as selling tickets is concerned). I don't think there's any teams that have been owned for more than one season that don't make a profit in GLB. I don't think there are any that even come close to running a deficit. This is actually the entire reason that the salary cap was implemented in real life in the first place; to promote parity between teams that had such a broad range of revenue streams.

Now of course someone's going to say, "But this change is done to introduce parity between the teams too!". To that I say, "read the three points over again". Money doesn't matter in the game, friends matter. If you make it so people can't play with their friends, they aren't going to say, "Oh well, I can't play with any of my friends, I'll just keep playing even though I signed up to play with my friends". They're going to say, "This sucks; I quit". This is established MMO fact. Every single major MMO that has introduced hard population caps on servers or otherwise limited the ability of friends to play together has backpedaled on that almost instantly. Why? Because people play MMOs to play with their friends. MMOs are inherently social games.

Take away the social and you take away the game.

Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Sik Wit It

And if a few players forget to re-sign before the deadline and become free agents, they won't be able to sign back onto the team. If a few agents drop out of your original team, you won't be able to recruit new good dots at their positions because you'd be going over the cap

Those are HUGE potential problems I see with the system^

I honestly think you guys should've stuck with your original plan, and I'm pretty disappointed you guys let as you call the vocal minority influence you to change the system so much.

Wasn't really a minority this time Sik. Trust me.

Correct, but they also weren't saying to change it to THIS. You don't listen to people only to make an even worse change, I'm sorry, but that is what this is.

Originally posted by Sarg01
He means instead of having Bottom 25% of market = 50 morale, have bottom 25% = 100 morale and Top 25% = 125 morale. Then you can still implement the team possessions and such, just to boost above 100 instead of to mitigate against a morale penalty.

How is that different at all? Now I want 125% morale or I am mad. All you did was shift the numbers.

I know drafts are on the NGTH list, but I suppose you could make more players available by giving salary cap credits for adding players to the marketplace. Trouble is I don't know how to keep it from being a sham without a draft. Not-Really-Free-Agents are already rampant.

How about put ur idea out and let the owners and active agent vote the old fashion way..