Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Based on the negative attribute that TV has vs its counter not having any negative.

So it's not balanced because it's not identical to another SA. That's still a silly argument.

I do not like how much power we're giving to offenses while taking away defensive variety and without having even seen the full fall out from the pass only teams that have started since the arc changes that are still making their way up to Vet.

These Route Tech changes are disgustingly good. I was already not super worried about the blitz and now with ABS on the horizon in a season or two, even more.

I stand to gain maybe the most of any team in the game with these changes and I hate them.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Based on the negative attribute that TV has vs its counter not having any negative. Adderfist had a good suggestion that maybe there should be a footwork penalty to AU. If TV has a greater chance of firing in comparison to AU, then OK, I can concede the debate on it... but that wasn't the point Bo was making to me.

I'm not sure what you're arguing. The negative you speak of is a slight hit to blitz awareness, which is very easy to cover for since that skill is very cheap. Meanwhile TV buffs speed, power, and fires like crazy. LB rushers don't even need first step, just slap on TV and 30+ PRP.

Somehow an OL SA that requires investment in Pass Block Power(very expensive) is not balanced? Is Immovable Object and Leverage not balanced? You're basically saying that Pass protection shouldn't be a thing.

i wanna see how it plays out, Route tech buff seems good and hopefully we get more separation for WR, ABS still needs to be tested but i think its a good SA thats near requirement level for heavy passing teams. TV fires EVERY play on passing and rushing downs. ABS isn't stopping insta cake sacks and if your relying on ABS your probably losing. We've already looked at TV mathmatically being the best SA in the game and it functions at a higher rate than ANY other skill in the game.

like in a recent scrim my DT with 55 Pass Rush Power and Gold TV played in 60 defensive snaps and TV fired in 58 of those plays thats a 96% fire rate

Counting all my DL we conservatively had 250+ TV activations that game

And you could expect similar fire rates from a Dline that went spin. Sometime during the pass play it will very likely activate. You're worried about the activation rate of an ability that is designed to activate as frequently as it does.

Just come out and say that you don't like watching olinemen get pancaked but you're totally fine with a 1 tick spin that leads to a Sack.

This is the same exact argument between man and zone and people who get their feelings hurt by INTs.

Church of holy zone had .014% Sacks against them their last vet season. SaCKS aRe BroKeN

Originally posted by ellix
And you could expect similar fire rates from a Dline that went spin. Sometime during the pass play it will very likely activate. You're worried about the activation rate of an ability that is designed to activate as frequently as it does.

Just come out and say that you don't like watching olinemen get pancaked but you're totally fine with a 1 tick spin that leads to a Sack.

This is the same exact argument between man and zone and people who get their feelings hurt by INTs.

actually i'll check for you

Originally posted by Corndog
So it's not balanced because it's not identical to another SA. That's still a silly argument.

I don't think you're understanding my point at all and ignoring the rest.

I don't really care all that much about AU. It's fine. I'll adapt, I always do unlike others on here.

Originally posted by ellix
And you could expect similar fire rates from a Dline that went spin. Sometime during the pass play it will very likely activate. You're worried about the activation rate of an ability that is designed to activate as frequently as it does.

Just come out and say that you don't like watching olinemen get pancaked but you're totally fine with a 1 tick spin that leads to a Sack.

This is the same exact argument between man and zone and people who get their feelings hurt by INTs.

in Team Beta's last playoff game against Nevada Spin Cycle procced 20 times on 67 plays

Originally posted by BoDiddley
I'm not sure what you're arguing. The negative you speak of is a slight hit to blitz awareness, which is very easy to cover for since that skill is very cheap. Meanwhile TV buffs speed, power, and fires like crazy. LB rushers don't even need first step, just slap on TV and 30+ PRP.

Somehow an OL SA that requires investment in Pass Block Power(very expensive) is not balanced? Is Immovable Object and Leverage not balanced? You're basically saying that Pass protection shouldn't be a thing.

-20 isn't slight, points are scarce. LB's with TV still don't get pressure on the QB at vet like they should, that's been an issue for years on here. I don't care about AU all that much honestly, it's just the point of it all really....Let's pretend passing is broken, Blitz's are OP, Ints are OP, RevCakes are Op, "zone should suck cuz IRL", etc etc etc. Wash, rinse, repeat, every changelog when we can't figure out a strategy.

I do feel like AU was a knee-jerk reaction to some test data we aren't privy to, since really RIF hasn't done enough to deserve a direct targeted nerf at them. Should have let it simmer a bit and see if it becomes a problem even at pro before hitting it with a nerf stick.

I mean, I'm the guy most effected by RIF right now and I think it's a joke the way this was handled.













Straight up, if you're going to release this, don't mention TV as the 'reason' - especially since it's a nerf to TECH - the thing TV isn't supposed to work well on. You're tipping your hand HARD that this is related to the only team using high tech TV rushers at the moment, especially since it hurts power rushers who use spin probably moreso than them.



My current run doesn't utilize that much, but it's a strategy I've carved out and shown others how to do - and AU is a full-on death-knell to it.




There is nothing about this skill that is targeted at TV frankly. This should have just been a rework to leverage so it was decent.



Seriously, SWIM penalty when pass rushing? Swim is almost entirely something that happens on run plays, almost never on pass plays. Not sure why, and I hate it.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
in Team Beta's last playoff game against Nevada Spin Cycle procced 20 times on 67 plays

You've already since admitted it fired on every pass play, exactly like you'd expect.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
-20 isn't slight, points are scarce. LB's with TV still don't get pressure on the QB at vet like they should, that's been an issue for years on here. I don't care about AU all that much honestly, it's just the point of it all really....Let's pretend passing is broken, Blitz's are OP, Ints are OP, RevCakes are Op, "zone should suck cuz IRL", etc etc etc. Wash, rinse, repeat, every changelog when we can't figure out a strategy.
You're applying a whole lot to a SA that just gives pass protectors what run blockers already had with Immovable Object. Explain how allowing builds that actually invest in an expensive skill like Pass Block Power is a problem. You still haven't done that. No one said revcakes are OP, or zones should suck(just as many Man Ds use TV), or any of that. It's honestly funny how upset you're getting over a SA that gives modest help to builds that invest in it

Btw: this is what you wrote in that suggestions thread you started, "OL SAs that work for winning blocking interactions."

AU is literally this, so what's the problem?

Originally posted by ellix
You've already since admitted it fired on every pass play, exactly like you'd expect.

the important designation is every PASS play unlike TV which triggered on EVERY play that game.

29% vs 100%