Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Stobie
Ok here are the results against EVERY League and Ladder game played in Season 5 across all tiers!

Some things of note when reading these numbers. Times and Comp % are against all pass attempts. All other incomplete categories are against all incomplete attempts thus giving the percentage of incomplete passes this how many times it occurred.

TYPE.....HURRY.....NOHURRY

Times Pass.....87545.....611799
Complete %.....44.2515.....49.8656

Fell Incomplete %.....14.3080.....12.9733
Dropped Pass %.....27.4275.....26.7514
Unable Secure %.....39.1005.....37.9089
Intercepted %.....1.3031.....1.2635
Deflected %.....13.2589.....11.6368
Knocked Loose %.....4.5364.....5.5343


5% drop in completion %.

Again, this is a global stat, I'm sure that there are QBs that have not made investments in heart/pass consistency/toughness(?) that are more impacted by hurries. Also, the closer the player is to the QB, the more intimidation that player has, etc. will affect how badly hurrying affects the QB.

The stat that needs to be addressed there is that, on plays where the QB threw the ball without feeling any hurry pressure only led to 49% completions. If you include times when they dropped back to throw and were sacked, that % of completed passes goes down even further.

Given that my team has a S* QB, a pass protecting o-line (with combo pull specialists as needed), and 4 S* WRs (all of whom have taken receiving skills over physical skills, some with more balance on physical, some almost no physical) can still have such a terrible completion % even when not sacked or hurried into single coverage.

Originally posted by Phisch
Stobies figures showed a 50.6806 to 44.2399 difference in Hurried Vs Non Hurried, 6%...thats an impact on throws surely!? and a completion % of 50% on non hurried throws is pretty poor...as Corndog said perhaps non hurried passes should be buffed...

What I think needs a buff is short route completions. I don't have a problem with a 49% completion % for teams that are making 20+ yard throws all the time. Problem is, teams are throwing a lot of those passes because they complete as many of those passes as they complete 5 yarders to tall possession WRs.

Originally posted by Corndog
Then again, my QB has maxed out On the Run, so there's that.

Need a new SA to help counter hurry pressure or a new SA to help increase hurry pressure effect on the QB. GOGOGO

Originally posted by Adderfist
Outside of all your arguing, what needs to happen is this.

WR's need to catch in traffic less, be it through improved PD rolls or otherwise.
WR's need to separate easier. Greater scale of speed or more effective headfakes/pump fakes

OL need to pass protect better when built for it. Run or Balanced OL's pass protect just as well as a line built to protect the pass.

Hurries need to have a larger impact on throw accuracy
Non hurried passes need to be better just all around.

CB's need to react to errant throws better
CB's need to drive on the ball when they're facing the QB and hardly moving. Right now they almost never put themselves in a winning position.

Some WRs need to catch in traffic less, those being the ones that aren't making out vertical, balance, rec hands, rec con, rec awareness, and catch in traffic. Those builds SHOULD be able to fight off the defender and make catches without the need for separation. They should not be catch and run, but they should be reliable targets more often than not. The QB should be able to 'see' those builds as being more open and be able to throw to a spot where they have a better chance of catching the ball, assuming the QB passes his awareness rolls.

Elusive WRs should be able to get better separation and the QB should be able to react better to that separation.

Speed WRs should be less able to bring the ball in when under pressure, better able to get yards when they get that separation.

OL who are built to pass protect should be able to get the QB enough time to throw the ball without the pressure and should be able to cake D-line who are balanced during pass plays as run blockers do against balanced D-line during run plays (I get that those are longer plays and that blocking switches to run blocking after the pass).

Hurries need to have a larger impact on throw accuracy when builds invest in intimidation skills and QBs don't invest in the 'cool headed' skills. The morale spirals from incompletions and sacks are bad enough without making blitzing even more prominent in this game.

Non hurried passes into single coverage should be completed much more often, except on deep routes to WRs with bad hands.

CBs need to react to the man they are covering better and need to position themselves between the QB and the WRs inside shoulder more often. If you give my possession WRs making an in route over the middle single man coverage and have the CB on the outside shoulder, that should be a timing route that the QB completes almost every time.

Awareness should give CBs much better reaction times and make them much more able to see when the WR makes a cut or is about to make a cut. As you said, CBs play really sloppy football that looks nothing like the real thing.

Originally posted by Sean1995
Not true. Most people were just opposing because the implementation of this would make passing more ineffective. Some who looked at it more objectively made arguments that 5% completion difference is enough, or that it would make blitzing OP, and I have made lots of counterarguments against them as well. The only person I think who's seeing the big picture is adderfist Lots of things need to be improved. I didn't know so many of you were afraid of changes this much.

I'm sorry, but are you really calling for the nerf hammer? Those of us who have played GLB1 since the beginning know what happens when you just decide to arbitrarily increase the effectiveness of something because people complain about it.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I'm sorry, but are you really calling for the nerf hammer? Those of us who have played GLB1 since the beginning know what happens when you just decide to arbitrarily increase the effectiveness of something because people complain about it.

LOL, how am I calling for the 'nerf hammer?' All hurries can currently hurt is 5% of 12.5% of passing (less than that for better built passing team) and I said we should make it more penalizing, and everyone is just freaking out.

Originally posted by Sean1995
LOL, how am I calling for the 'nerf hammer?' All hurries can currently hurt is 5% of 12.5% of passing (less than that for better built passing team) and I said we should make it more penalizing, and everyone is just freaking out.

What you are calling for is a global increase in the power of hurries without considering the effect of builds on hurry pressure.

Originally posted by Time Trial
What you are calling for is a global increase in the power of hurries without considering the effect of builds on hurry pressure.

Yes, global increase for any hurries. Because stobie's global stats show that hurries don't do anything much. How is this without 'considering the effect of builds on hurry pressure?'

Originally posted by Sean1995
Yes, global increase for any hurries. Because stobie's global stats show that hurries don't do anything much. How is this without 'considering the effect of builds on hurry pressure?'

50% completion rate vs 44% completion rate is not much?

Originally posted by Time Trial
without considering the effect of builds on hurry pressure.

Same reason he called for an increase in INTs. Same reason most have just left this thread. Stubbornness.

Originally posted by Corndog
50% completion rate vs 44% completion rate is not much?



I think what is being looked at is there's only a 6% difference and that really isn't much. Not to mention hurries are like a stupid strong quick read.

Now, if normal passing was 60 % and it was a 16% difference then you might see some changes in opinion.

Originally posted by Corndog
50% completion rate vs 44% completion rate is not much?



yeah? Because hurries don't even happen that often? (only 12.5% of passes are hurried according to stobie's data)

And when you break it down further

Originally posted by Sean1995
Exactly.

QB throws one more 'fell incomplete' pass when he is hurried 74.9 times than when he isn't 74.9 times.

QB throws one more interception when he is hurried 2525 times than when he isn't 2525 times.

QB throws one more batted away pass when he is hurried 61.6 times than when he isn't 61.6 times.

QB throws one more dropped pass when he is hurried 147.9 times than when he isn't 147.9 times.


That 2525 passes and 1 INT stat is just to me.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
Same reason he called for an increase in INTs. Same reason most have just left this thread. Stubbornness.

Are you implying that none of us have been building pass rushers the right way? I would love to hear why that's the case. More intimidation, right? Anything else?

Originally posted by Time Trial
Some WRs need to catch in traffic less, those being the ones that aren't making out vertical, balance, rec hands, rec con, rec awareness, and catch in traffic. Those builds SHOULD be able to fight off the defender and make catches without the need for separation. They should not be catch and run, but they should be reliable targets more often than not. The QB should be able to 'see' those builds as being more open and be able to throw to a spot where they have a better chance of catching the ball, assuming the QB passes his awareness rolls.

Elusive WRs should be able to get better separation and the QB should be able to react better to that separation.

Speed WRs should be less able to bring the ball in when under pressure, better able to get yards when they get that separation.

OL who are built to pass protect should be able to get the QB enough time to throw the ball without the pressure and should be able to cake D-line who are balanced during pass plays as run blockers do against balanced D-line during run plays (I get that those are longer plays and that blocking switches to run blocking after the pass).

Hurries need to have a larger impact on throw accuracy when builds invest in intimidation skills and QBs don't invest in the 'cool headed' skills. The morale spirals from incompletions and sacks are bad enough without making blitzing even more prominent in this game.

Non hurried passes into single coverage should be completed much more often, except on deep routes to WRs with bad hands.

CBs need to react to the man they are covering better and need to position themselves between the QB and the WRs inside shoulder more often. If you give my possession WRs making an in route over the middle single man coverage and have the CB on the outside shoulder, that should be a timing route that the QB completes almost every time.

Awareness should give CBs much better reaction times and make them much more able to see when the WR makes a cut or is about to make a cut. As you said, CBs play really sloppy football that looks nothing like the real thing.

You made some good points there, though. I don't really think WRs should get slowed down right after making catches (aka momentum). Just make them fall if balance rolls fail, but don't make them have to start from a dead-stop and then get tackled from behind shortly after. This would bring more big plays for passing offense for sure.

Originally posted by Adderfist
I think what is being looked at is there's only a 6% difference and that really isn't much. Not to mention hurries are like a stupid strong quick read.

Now, if normal passing was 60 % and it was a 16% difference then you might see some changes in opinion.

If normal passing was 60% games would be 120 to 106 and fewer people would be talking about hurries.