Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bort
How do you reward players for getting more money, but yet not give them any performance bonus (or penalty)?

Here are the problems/points:

- Nobody cares about salary right now because it doesn't give them any benefit.
- People don't want salary to give you a benefit, but still have a purpose.
- People don't want salary to penalize you in any way because then you are "at the whim of an owner"
- People feel entitled to EQ, and want it pretty much for free. I'm fine with that; it's become part of the game.

These things don't mesh with each other at all.


The original finances idea was really good, the only hiccup was the morale penalty.

That being said, it might not of even been a hiccup -rather- it just wasn't explained good enough, I Think if it could have been better explained everyone would have been on board with it, and all these changes would have gone through pretty smooth.


Catch apparently didn't identify what the one glaring issue was perceived to be with the "original idea" and should have explained it to you better is my only guess.



I gotta throw catch under the bus. Catch22 came at you with the completely wrong approach, and lost site of that one issue., You should have sat down with deathblade/PP, and you could have knocked this out and it would have been smooth as molasses.

Both of those testers explained indepth how to remedy the situation, and it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

"-There's a salary cap - if you go over the cap, you basically pay that extra money to the league as well (luxury tax)
-Player's pre-game starting morale is based on their salary in comparison to the rest of the league.
-You can raise your players' pre-game starting morale using 3 methods:
1) higher contracts - the more you pay your player in comparison to the league average, the more starting morale he will have
2) team possessions - the more items you have like jumbotrons, luxury locker rooms, etc, the higher morale your players will have
3) temporary items - these are basically like team possessions but they don't last as long - usually only 1 home game (like the bobblehead promotions), or a 1-season bonus (chartered flights, cheerleaders, etc)"

How are any of these changes good for the game? I'm glad you were able to explain it clearly, but really now.... More time consuming things for owners to worry about that might effect the outcome of the game instead of builds and game planning. I would be very concerned about fake money management effecting morale especially now that it has a greater impact in the game starting this season.

Originally posted by Catch22
Mine too. My pm inbox was flooded and the team/private forums I peeked on were full of rage, mainly about the financial system stuff.

good to see you kept most of your idea the same then ...

1 agent teams here we come....oh yeah its hazy...

The more I read this thread the more I'm convinced that this is the GLB form of scare tactics.

It's similar to when, as a teenager, you would go up to your mom and go "Hey mom, I just got a sick tattoo on my back. It's a gigantic blue dragon, and it's fucking shooting FUCKING LASERS out of it's fucking mouth!"

Then, while she's flipping out, you say "Oh, just kidding. I only got my ear pierced," and go on your way.

At least, I hope that they're not actually considering this. :|

Originally posted by Mstr_October
Bort, I just wish you would stick to your original guns here. Implement the system you spent tons of time on and we will adapt. Some will get it sooner than others, and that's okay. We will all get it, and most will come to like it...I promise.

This new band-aid is pretty bad though.

Basically it's the same system we have now except it might restrict certain players from signing with certain teams. How is that better? If anything, if you don't want all the customers to ragequit, then don't make any changes and just leave it how it is now. I still think your original plan was pretty good, and much less complicated than people were making it out to be. If I had to rank them, it would be:

1) Originally proposed idea - with team possessions, salary-based morale, and all that
2) What we have NOW - sure it's pretty one-dimensional, but if you don't want people to quit, then so be it
3) This new system - you still have the one-dimensional financial system, but now we're restricting where players can sign based on how GOOD they are? That just isn't good for the game.

This means peewees get only one piece of EQ

Originally posted by Bort
You take that out and you might as well not pay them at all.

True.

It just wasn't explained good enough how people could get the morale back up. Now that it appears users would spend money on that, and more teams would field natural leaders/line generals I think you should strongly consider going back to that idea.

Had it been explained a little better I don't think you would have had any push back on it. Was just a lot of chaos - This forum needs more bort in times like this TBH.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by David Stern

yeah, i left out a few words. I would gladly take back the original proposal over this

LOL, no winning I guess?

Current system: doesn't work.
Original idea: too complicated somehow
New idea: not complicated enough?

It has absolutely nothing with not being complicated enough, it has to do with that fact that you will not let dots sign where they please if they and they team they wish to sign with is good at this game. People don't build friendships for 2 years, learn to build/play this game for 2 years with the same people and then be told, sorry this team can not sign you because you guys are build to well as a whole...mindblown.

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
"-There's a salary cap - if you go over the cap, you basically pay that extra money to the league as well (luxury tax)
-Player's pre-game starting morale is based on their salary in comparison to the rest of the league.
-You can raise your players' pre-game starting morale using 3 methods:
1) higher contracts - the more you pay your player in comparison to the league average, the more starting morale he will have
2) team possessions - the more items you have like jumbotrons, luxury locker rooms, etc, the higher morale your players will have
3) temporary items - these are basically like team possessions but they don't last as long - usually only 1 home game (like the bobblehead promotions), or a 1-season bonus (chartered flights, cheerleaders, etc)"

How are any of these changes good for the game? I'm glad you were able to explain it clearly, but really now.... More time consuming things for owners to worry about that might effect the outcome of the game instead of builds and game planning. I would be very concerned about fake money management effecting morale especially now that it has a greater impact in the game starting this season.

it would take about an hour of time per season...there was already detailed cookie cutter plans floating around private forums today...that would make it public shortly...

any well run team would be running 100 morale to open every game after the first season or two...

Wait, so when these changes were first announced and there was an uproar about it, we were all told to just hold on, not be intimidated by the wall of text, and wait until the screenshots could be made. Then less than 24 hours later, we go and change the changes before we even know what the reaction to the screenshots would be.

That isn't exactly the way to model behavior. It just encourages people to rage and reinforces the mob mentality in order to prevent changes that aren't even fully understood.

As always, I will reserve my judgments until the actual product is released and I've had time to get accustomed to it. If these new changes have been legitimately thought out and determined to be better than the changes proposed yesterday, fine. However, if these new changes are just for the sake of quieting the crowds, I'm extremely disappointed.

Originally posted by sjmay
Could you tell if they understood the financial system or were they just raging because it was trendy and they didn't want to read?

That makes a huge difference.

+1

Those who don't understand tend to bitch the loudest.

Probably should have given those of us who actually read the original changes a chance to explain it to those who are too impatient to read through all of it. Any thoughts of getting it out there and putting up with the rage for a while? Then send out a poll asking which change is better.

Originally posted by Zel3ra
This means peewees get only one piece of EQ

no worries mang there will be a change to that

Originally posted by ChicagoTRS
it would take about an hour of time per season...there was already detailed cookie cutter plans floating around private forums today...that would make it public shortly...

any well run team would be running 100 morale to open every game after the first season or two...

Pretty much this.

Originally posted by David Stern
Originally posted by Bort

You take that out and you might as well not pay them at all.

True.

It just wasn't explained good enough how people could get the morale back up. Now that it appears users would spend money on that, and more teams would field natural leaders/line generals I think you should strongly consider going back to that idea.

Had it been explained a little better I don't think you would have had any push back on it. Was just a lot of chaos - This forum needs more bort in times like this TBH.

Paste my tl;dr version at the bottom of the post, problem solved.

-There's a salary cap - if you go over the cap, you basically pay that extra money to the league as well (luxury tax)
-Player's pre-game starting morale is based on their salary in comparison to the rest of the league.
-You can raise your players' pre-game starting morale using 3 methods:
1) higher contracts - the more you pay your player in comparison to the league average, the more starting morale he will have
2) team possessions - the more items you have like jumbotrons, luxury locker rooms, etc, the higher morale your players will have
3) temporary items - these are basically like team possessions but they don't last as long - usually only 1 home game (like the bobblehead promotions), or a 1-season bonus (chartered flights, cheerleaders, etc)

That's basically all there is to it. A lot of people don't like it because they think getting penalized on morale will make everyone demand a max contract, but they don't realize that morale can be made up with team possessions very easily.

You have to choose between investing in the long run (permanent items), short run (temp items), or your players themselves (contracts). Finding a good balance that will still allow your players to play with 100 morale going into every game, and will also allow you to invest in your team's future will be the job of a CFO.

Originally posted by sjmay
Now you are backing off from that, and a lot of people don't understand why.

Catch made me do it!

Honestly, though, from lots of lurking and reading I've done, there's definitely plenty of people who would rather not have to deal with finances at all, or very little at least. IMO, there's three types of people who we are dealing with here, and they have different goals. They can be summed up by what mode they choose on Madden or any other sports video game:

- Hardcore players who want to think about everything. They choose "franchise" mode and select the worst team, trying to build them up. They would really like our original plan, but there's probably not as many of them as there are of the other two.
- The average player, who doesn't mind a little thinking, but doesn't want to be bothered too much. They choose "season" mode with their favorite team, and just play through, maybe making a few trades.
- The casual player, who just wants to get into it without hassle. They choose "quick play" with their favorite team vs a random opponent.

Hardcore leagues would be created with all the new bells and whistles, so the hardcore guys can get the "full" experience.
Normal leagues would need a much more simple financial system with a few choices, for the average player.
Casual or super casual leagues cover the guys who just want to play.

Average probably outweighs hardcore by a fair margin, and probably casual too.


I honestly don't know if there is an "in between" financial system out there for the average leagues. Anything stripped down doesn't really cover the bases you need in a financial system, and is therefore superfluous or limiting. Not exactly in an easy spot here.