Warrior General Games

Originally posted by coach

Right now defenders who have one SA (Super Vision) that can counter both elusive SAs. And equipment is a wash.


The secondary (CB/FS/SS) have access to SV...the rest don't unless you count AEQ, but then you would be reducing your +% avoid fake eq to wear the SV eq.

Originally posted by Deathblade

Personally, I think the "half circle" is too big...it should be like 75 degrees, then increase towards 180 degrees based on vision.

Have thought about it. Side fakes are a little silly sometimes.

My high tackling LB is now jukebate but more vision ftw

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by DL24

Originally posted by Bort


Originally posted by jrry32



Bort, while you are here...have you considered coding in vision cones instead of the current system? Or are there currently vision cones? Because it seems like vision cones are needed because the current vision system allows a dot to not really have a front or back to it. Like OL dots can engage a DT in front of him, disengage him and immediately engage a DE running directly behind him or a WR can engage a CB in front of him and a LB who run into the side of him.

There are vision cones for some things (lead blocking and QB sack avoidance). A lot of it is done with "allowable angles" between vectors. The ball carrier sort of has a vision "half circle" in which he can fake people, as well.

So he can't fake people behind him, right?

If he can't then lots of dots out there stumble randomly in the middle of running. Bort have you thought about coding it in more? Like in blocking interaction? And does the vision half circles have like "hot zones" where if a guy is in this angle to the ballcarrier, he is much more easily faked then if he is in this angle?



No, it's just "is he in front of me" - fakes are not more or less possible from the side or front. It would be possible to add a sliding scale based on angle differences between the players' vectors, easily enough.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade


Personally, I think the "half circle" is too big...it should be like 75 degrees, then increase towards 180 degrees based on vision.

Have thought about it. Side fakes are a little silly sometimes.

To be honest, I think the side fakes were the biggest problem...if you were to change it, you could revert the most recent changes. People are reporting that they can't fake single players as well anymore, when they used to be able to...could you have accidentally uploaded other code along with the fake limiter?

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by j10er

Originally posted by kurieg


Originally posted by j10er






While I see what you're saying, I'm still convinced Tackling goes into the anti-fake equation.

And Bort is going to verify that in 3... 2.... 1...




Seriously, Bort, all you have to give us is one of your patented, "It would make sense, wouldn't it?" answers, and I'd be happy.

Of course, then I'd ask you if Tackling helps to shed blocks. But one thing at a time

Vision is much more important than tackling for avoiding fakes.

Ahh... thank you

At least I know tackling is part of the equation, now.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade


Personally, I think the "half circle" is too big...it should be like 75 degrees, then increase towards 180 degrees based on vision.

Have thought about it. Side fakes are a little silly sometimes.

Side fakes are ok. I can see someone faking into a defender, then exploding away.

The problem is the relative direction on the field. If the ball-carrier is running outside and downhill, a defender coming in from the side should be heavily biased towards over-shooting and not giving up the outside if at all possible. Right now, the defender stops on the fake.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Deathblade



Personally, I think the "half circle" is too big...it should be like 75 degrees, then increase towards 180 degrees based on vision.

Have thought about it. Side fakes are a little silly sometimes.

To be honest, I think the side fakes were the biggest problem...if you were to change it, you could revert the most recent changes. People are reporting that they can't fake single players as well anymore, when they used to be able to...could you have accidentally uploaded other code along with the fake limiter?

This would be good to get out of the way once and for all to be rid of the conspiracy theorists

Originally posted by Deathblade
To be honest, I think the side fakes were the biggest problem...if you were to change it, you could revert the most recent changes. People are reporting that they can't fake single players as well anymore, when they used to be able to...could you have accidentally uploaded other code along with the fake limiter?

Actually, I want to change that "could revert the most recent changes" to "should revert the most recent changes". Otherwise, elusives will be killed.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
Originally posted by wombat killer

Originally posted by PackMan97


Originally posted by wombat killer



Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

If Papa Smurf running at you and Ray Lewis is running at you. Who would you try to juke?

juke the murderer ray lewis first, papa smurf would not be a threat

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Deathblade



Personally, I think the "half circle" is too big...it should be like 75 degrees, then increase towards 180 degrees based on vision.

Have thought about it. Side fakes are a little silly sometimes.

To be honest, I think the side fakes were the biggest problem...if you were to change it, you could revert the most recent changes. People are reporting that they can't fake single players as well anymore, when they used to be able to...could you have accidentally uploaded other code along with the fake limiter?

No, fake pcts haven't been touched in quite a while, so other code couldn't have snuck in, because it doesn't exist.

I'd like to maybe do some testing on other ideas as well; doing a vision cone might be cool and more realistic in general. I've got the beginnings of some new forum stuff to upload too (you know what I'm talkin 'bout); just been having a hard time finding a lot of time recently to put in solid blocks of code work (more just here and there stuff lately and dealing with the new server setup). Frustrating really.

its shit like this that makes me not waste any money building backs or wrs

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Bukowski

It used to be, when the fake SA activates, the defender that was the highest threat would normally be faked.

LOL, you just pulled that out of your ass, because it ain't true. Usually it was just the guys who failed their rolls most miserably. It's the same math & progression as it's always been now. Fakes happen when a defender is getting in position to try and make a tackle, and its in a fairly random order as to who gets picked first amongst those in range, based on which defender is acting first against the carrier. If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him. If the tackler is already faked out, he can't get stack-faked, so we can go on to the next guy.

Therefore, lets say there are 3 guys trying to make the tackle.

Tick 1, you fake guy B.
Tick 2, you fail all your rolls and don't fake anybody. Guy B is still faked.
Tick 3, you can't fake guy B because he's already faked out, so you fake guy A.
Tick 4, guy B and A are already faked out, still shrunken, so you fake guy C.

Now, with this method, you do end up with fewer chances to fake people, because you have to wait until the next tick to try for the next guy when you succeed, but that's what I wanted - focus on taking out one tackler at a time.

Makes sense, but is still not very realistic considering a player fakes once and everyone sees and reacts at the exact same time.

Why not just allow a HB to affect a number of defenders with the same fake, but slightly decrease the frequency of fake rolls?


Edit: In my early defense, I'm still reading the whole thread.

Originally posted by Bort
No, fake pcts haven't been touched in quite a while, so other code couldn't have snuck in, because it doesn't exist.

I'd like to maybe do some testing on other ideas as well; doing a vision cone might be cool and more realistic in general. I've got the beginnings of some new forum stuff to upload too (you know what I'm talkin 'bout); just been having a hard time finding a lot of time recently to put in solid blocks of code work (more just here and there stuff lately and dealing with the new server setup). Frustrating really.

Sweet, sounds p good.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
Originally posted by PackMan97

I think it is important to note that this change is only one SUCCESSFUL fake per tick, not one fake chance per tick.

I don't understand. Expand on that bro.

Let's say 5 guys are about to tackle you...you don't pick one to try and fake and that's the only fake you'll try....you will start trying them until you fake one guy or you've failed against all of them.

You don't get one fake chance per tick, you only get one success per tick.