Warrior General Games

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I don't recall inside rushing ever being OP so I'm not sure why they would even mess with it in the first place. According to all the supporters of this change inside rushing was never good in the first place.



Bryan Habana is statistically on point with his prior seasons and his broken tackles are actually up a bit from last year. Are you positive you aren't just facing better defenses?

Vagrant Juggernaut's averages are down a bit, but his broken tackles are still on pace with last year. Again, it is likely he is just seeing better defenses.

Originally posted by bhall43
Bryan Habana is statistically on point with his prior seasons and his broken tackles are actually up a bit from last year. Are you positive you aren't just facing better defenses?

Could be. But I posted global numbers. A lot of bad run defenses must have reset and were replaced by better ones. I keep hearing how weak Cheddar teams are which would not make any sense then.

For comparison:

Whoville played Central 4 times to end S23

Vance Juggernaut

23 rushes, 167 yards, 5 broken tackles, no fumbles
28 rushes, 120 yards, 6 broken tackles, no fumbles
13 rushes, 82 yards, 3 broken tackles, no fumbles
45 rushes, 186 yards, 7 broken tackles, no fumbles

This season:

18 rushes, 58 yards, 7 broken tackles, no fumbles


Bryan Habana

38 rushes, 123 yards, 9 broken tackles, no fumbles
31 rushes, 164 yards, 14 broken tackles, no fumbles
43 rushes, 119 yards, 10 broken tackles, no fumbles
42 rushes, 172 yards, 17 broken tackles, no fumbles

This season:

46 rushes, 222 yards, 14 broken tackles, 1 fumble

Originally posted by bhall43
Bryan Habana is statistically on point with his prior seasons and his broken tackles are actually up a bit from last year. Are you positive you aren't just facing better defenses?

They are. Vet defenses are no joke.

Originally posted by Xars
Question:

Putting SP into Sprinting first and then Power Rushing may be optimal, but does that mean that going Power Rushing first shouldn't be even remotely viable?

Discuss.

yes, because of science! google inertia/velocity/etc etc

physicals first for any "rushing" build (sprint/quick/fw)

i have always been a fan of your crazy builds xars but to think you can make a FB with 13 sprint and have positive results is a bit too crazy lol. maybe 25 sprint at a minimum and nix the quick/fw but no sprint = no good results. not a problem with the game, just a problem in theory.

also, maybe some sprint would help your FB get in the "sweet spot" quicker for the crazy FB screens you are testing and also help in that area as well. IMO all signs to fix your issue point to SPRINT

Originally posted by Spastic_Cowboy
Pretty much echo what Osiris is saying. Central has always been built around ball control, and this version has been reasonably good at that all the way up the ranks. Now at Vet our HB goes from 90->100 PR in the offseason and we get much worse at inside running. It's brutal when you can't count on solid gains up the middle/offtackle against plays like DE Flats and the like.

One point though is our tier was pretty weak at the very top. With all due respect to everyone, I don't think any teams from that tier (e.g. Central, Whoville, etc) are quite as good as say a Vape or Bronx. So that's probably warped my perspective a little on the way up the ranks, and maybe this offseason seems like a bigger nerf to me than the reality.

Taking this over here because of the discussion. But that second paragraph is very much on the nose.

Against Winchester:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/438414/213261
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/438414/213553
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/438414/213876

Against Miami:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/440181/585187

Even against Bronx:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/436447/305750



Those were just the TD runs. There is a wealth of replays in the Winchester game I could post. Probably the others too but I don't feel like going play by play through every single game. And hell, you played Bronx in the rain even. That was bound to be rough running either way.

Originally posted by Sov.
yes, because of science! google inertia/velocity/etc etc

physicals first for any "rushing" build (sprint/quick/fw)

i have always been a fan of your crazy builds xars but to think you can make a FB with 13 sprint and have positive results is a bit too crazy lol. maybe 25 sprint at a minimum and nix the quick/fw but no sprint = no good results. not a problem with the game, just a problem in theory.

also, maybe some sprint would help your FB get in the "sweet spot" quicker for the crazy FB screens you are testing and also help in that area as well. IMO all signs to fix your issue point to SPRINT

Thus my previous statement that 35 sprinting would be solid, 50 could be dominate. Still again would of had to sacrifice some of the power early on. But not much if you would of taken sprinting to 35 with 20 qck/fw. I haven't tested that in virtual player for exact results. But IMO, should be good.

This guy is teh suck tooooo....

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/244739

Who's bilge do I have to pump to get some solid FB runs around here?

Originally posted by DeeVee8
This guy is teh suck tooooo....

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/244739

Who's bilge do I have to pump to get some solid FB runs around here?

I mean, I would bet you could do a lot better than running the GL FB plays and FB Counter from Pro Set.

Originally posted by Sov.
yes, because of science! google inertia/velocity/etc etc

physicals first for any "rushing" build (sprint/quick/fw)

i have always been a fan of your crazy builds xars but to think you can make a FB with 13 sprint and have positive results is a bit too crazy lol. maybe 25 sprint at a minimum and nix the quick/fw but no sprint = no good results. not a problem with the game, just a problem in theory.

also, maybe some sprint would help your FB get in the "sweet spot" quicker for the crazy FB screens you are testing and also help in that area as well. IMO all signs to fix your issue point to SPRINT

Of course more Sprinting would help. You're all mentioning it as the Solution. Yes it is.

But that's why it's also the Problem - or at least exposes the problem.

If I built my FB with 70 Sprinting and 13 Power Rushing, he'd be much "better" than he is at 70 Power Rushing and 13 Sprinting. This is not debatable.

Thus higher Power Rushing has a negative coefficient of success at the lower tiers. That negative coefficient was high before but is now insane with a Vet-level weight addition. Sprinting has the positive coefficient so every time you add Sprinting you're creating success. My point is that Power Rushing shouldn't have a negative coefficient of success. It doesn't need as high a positive coefficient as Sprinitng - not even close - but the current game balance is completely out of whack.

To answer Rob's question, No I don't want Pre-23 without Weight, What should happen is to scale in S24 Weight by tier. Example: Vet gets 100% of the Weight effect. Pro gets 90%. Journeyman gets 70%, Seasoned gets 50%, Soph gets 30% and Rookie gets 10%. Or something like this.

Then there should be some attempt to fix Power Rushing at lower tiers, along with Screens etc. Bort/Cdog like to say it's a game about building players which is why it's 5 seasons of build and two seasons at Vet. Yet, they destroyed the 5 seasons of building to balance the 2 seasons of Vet with how Weight was implemented.

And there aren't enough attempts at fixing broken shit. They keep adding more plays rather than trying to fix 10 or 20 existing plays.

Fix 20 existing plays per season. That's a system that will improve the game over time.

Originally posted by Xars

If I built my FB with 70 Sprinting and 13 Power Rushing, he'd be much "better" than he is at 70 Power Rushing and 13 Sprinting. This is not debatable.



Yes and this is ok, those skills don't have the same value, doesn't matter if you break 3 tackles if you are so slow that other tacklers reach you, sprinting is just more effective for a HB.

But i agree that power running should be more effective in lower tiers, the skill value curve is too brutal, 0-80 garbage, 80-90 mediocre, 90-95 decent, 96-100 GOD, but the problem is that if you increase low power running effectiveness, elusives and balanced HBs would be even better.

Originally posted by Xars
Of course more Sprinting would help. You're all mentioning it as the Solution. Yes it is.

But that's why it's also the Problem - or at least exposes the problem.

If I built my FB with 70 Sprinting and 13 Power Rushing, he'd be much "better" than he is at 70 Power Rushing and 13 Sprinting. This is not debatable.

Thus higher Power Rushing has a negative coefficient of success at the lower tiers. That negative coefficient was high before but is now insane with a Vet-level weight addition. Sprinting has the positive coefficient so every time you add Sprinting you're creating success. My point is that Power Rushing shouldn't have a negative coefficient of success. It doesn't need as high a positive coefficient as Sprinitng - not even close - but the current game balance is completely out of whack.

To answer Rob's question, No I don't want Pre-23 without Weight, What should happen is to scale in S24 Weight by tier. Example: Vet gets 100% of the Weight effect. Pro gets 90%. Journeyman gets 70%, Seasoned gets 50%, Soph gets 30% and Rookie gets 10%. Or something like this.

Then there should be some attempt to fix Power Rushing at lower tiers, along with Screens etc. Bort/Cdog like to say it's a game about building players which is why it's 5 seasons of build and two seasons at Vet. Yet, they destroyed the 5 seasons of building to balance the 2 seasons of Vet with how Weight was implemented.

And there aren't enough attempts at fixing broken shit. They keep adding more plays rather than trying to fix 10 or 20 existing plays.

Fix 20 existing plays per season. That's a system that will improve the game over time.




I see what you are saying about sprint and power not being equal skills and all but speed is critical in any sport. You cannot expect to walk in any sport while other people are jogging, sprinting or anything like that... I also agree with Rob that the problem has less to do with weight and more to do with defenders being able to tackle without investing anything or little in tackling skills. The problem with a change to defenders being able to make tackles is that the SP investment required to add to tackling skills to make up for the need would have to come from some other skills like sprint. Defenders are already spread so thin. Tackling skills are also similar to power though. My S* DE on BSB has 50 tackle tech, 54 power tackling and 46 tackling grip and has 12 tackles, 9 missed tackles and 21 assisted tackles 1/3 of the way through the season. DLine obviously needs to invest heavily in blocking interaction related skills along with physicals and damn near everything else. No DLineman is going to excel in every area and sacrifices have to be made to make the builds work whether it is sprint, conditioning, BRB, PRT, pursuit or whatever else all while HBs are able to pile on 100 power, 100 sprint and 100 conditioning along with some grip and have little else to worry about. The weight change was surely implemented with the DLine in mind. When making the arguement that rushers have to deal with Vet level weight from rookie all the way through vet, it simply does not mean much to me as those same defenders have to deal with the vet level weight for OLineman, HBs and any player that they interact with as well. I honestly think that if they made weight percentages applied through different tiers that the results would pretty much the same.