Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Jagat0r
Well I concede it would be nice to see power and elusive running actually work before seasoned instead of backs that fall down as soon as they are tagged, and I imagine that would solve some of your issues. I dont argue that the plays arent broken there are several fundamentally broken running plays I concede do not work, but you guys make it a run vs pass issue and it is my belief there are also many passing plays that are fundamentally broken and wont work. So in MY opinion it isnt a running issue, its a playbook issue. Im pretty sure Osiris and many others think the way they do because it looks like many running teams throw the exact same playbook and tactics out there every game, and then we constantly see them in here complaining it didnt work, and I feel when you play the good teams and run a predictable scheme it is hard to win those games.
this state of mind is complete shit. Have a look at ASU's offense this season. We're trying fucking everything.

http://i.gyazo.com/c91add02baaf0dfafcfa9d3b4311be1f.png

Originally posted by jfbueno
Running is definitely straight doo doo at rookie/sophomore. Finding a way to make running a little more viable in early game would definitely help diversity in team makeup
it's straight doodoo at rook/soph but then you get to seasoned and get to play jman/pro/vet teams that are WAY easier to score on if you're passing than they are if you're running.

Originally posted by Kayoh

this state of mind is complete shit. Have a look at ASU's offense this season. We're trying fucking everything.

http://i.gyazo.com/c91add02baaf0dfafcfa9d3b4311be1f.png

Your probably right but theres really only 3 plays running the ball (run left, run right, and run up the middle) its hard to see that diversity with the eyes. Although I see most of your list nets 4 yards a carry or more, thats a successful rushing attack on any level of football. Are we intending to judge the sim by a different standard?

Originally posted by Jagat0r
Your probably right but theres really only 3 plays running the ball (run left, run right, and run up the middle) its hard to see that diversity with the eyes. Although I see most of your list nets 4 yards a carry or more, thats a successful rushing attack on any level of football. Are we intending to judge the sim by a different standard?
no shit, we're 19-9. There are a lot of teams that are either CPU or just lazy ass defensive coordinators that don't know what they're doing. Multi Marvin is the perfect example. I have no fucking clue how that dude's team is in the top 10 given how goddamn lazy he is defensively. Teams don't even need to invest in run defense skills (just ask bhall) to shut us out with the right gameplan, and that's fucking dumb. Have a look. This is our offensive output against competent defensive coordinators:

http://i.gyazo.com/c9160750047a4da6ea2aef4de7613115.png

it's worth noting that most of those plays are against generic shit like 4-3 C1 man under, 4-3 C2 man under, 4-3 C3 buzz and 4-4 c2. The fact that teams can call the most generic shit in the playbook and it's impossible to find 5 outside runs that average over 5 ypc against it is dumb as hell.

Originally posted by Jagat0r
Your probably right but theres really only 3 plays running the ball (run left, run right, and run up the middle) its hard to see that diversity with the eyes. Although I see most of your list nets 4 yards a carry or more, thats a successful rushing attack on any level of football. Are we intending to judge the sim by a different standard?

Pretty misleading statistics as that counts teams from all ranks. If I run the gameplan I ran against Tosche today against anyone relevant in the tier besides Santiago id probably score a zero.

Originally posted by Kayoh

no shit, we're 19-9. There are a lot of teams that are either CPU or just lazy ass defensive coordinators that don't know what they're doing. Multi Marvin is the perfect example. I have no fucking clue how that dude's team is in the top 10 given how goddamn lazy he is defensively. Teams don't even need to invest in run defense skills (just ask bhall) to shut us out with the right gameplan, and that's fucking dumb. Have a look. This is our offensive output against competent defensive coordinators:

http://i.gyazo.com/c9160750047a4da6ea2aef4de7613115.png

it's worth noting that most of those plays are against generic shit like 4-3 C1 man under, 4-3 C2 man under, 4-3 C3 buzz and 4-4 c2. The fact that teams can call the most generic shit in the playbook and it's impossible to find 5 outside runs that average over 5 ypc against it is dumb as hell.

Still wish ASU kept together. You guys were seriously wearing my team down in the 2nd half. For my own ego I was hoping you'd hit dangerous run offense status first ahead of BEEF, EEA, Mannheim, etc.

EEA is gonna always get better running lanes because they can pass. You just can't forfeit a gameplan to them running or you are bound to get slapped in the face. Basically have to cover 2 man them unless you are getting frisky with the zone.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Still wish ASU kept together. You guys were seriously wearing my team down in the 2nd half. For my own ego I was hoping you'd hit dangerous run offense status first ahead of BEEF, EEA, Mannheim, etc.
discussion is still ongoing in the team forum, it's not 100% folding

I think our offense is still a season away from being legitimately dangerous. Our power back is going to have 100 balance before he hits 100 power running which might be a mistake in hindsight

Originally posted by Rob.
Should have stopped here.

You coach one team and they are at vet. You don't know what is happening at lower levels. You are right, you don't get it.

We were not always in vet. We couldn't run at all in rookie other than our QB. The stud S* HB we had averaged less than 4 YPC that season. Our running game really didn't pick up until around the end of our seasoned season. Instant sacks on pitches and botched hand-offs really irritated me. We had to do other things, such as the forward pass.

I am all for fixing things that are not working as intended. I just want to see an end to the 100% run teams as they currently are not buff this and buff that across the board.

This is just my opinion think whatever you want to think.
Originally posted by Kayoh


http://i.gyazo.com/c9160750047a4da6ea2aef4de7613115.png

it's worth noting that most of those plays are against generic shit like 4-3 C1 man under, 4-3 C2 man under, 4-3 C3 buzz and 4-4 c2. The fact that teams can call the most generic shit in the playbook and it's impossible to find 5 outside runs that average over 5 ypc against it is dumb as hell.

Those numbers are very low. The man under plays are generic but I personally wouldn't call outside runs against them. To me the safeties in the outside zones would be a red light. Looking at the PS Sweep in rookie it has decent numbers against the defenses it should have decent numbers against.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Those numbers are very low. The man under plays are generic but I personally wouldn't call outside runs against them. To me the safeties in the outside zones would be a red light. Looking at the PS Sweep in rookie it has decent numbers against the defenses it should have decent numbers against.
are we counting the 0.29 ypc against 4-3 cover 4, 0.13 ypc against 3-4 cover 2 man under, 0.19 ypc against 4-3 free fire, 2 ypc against 4-3 c2 will fire, 2.13 ypc against 3-4 2 man under robber, 2.25 against 4-3 cover 2 buc, etc etc etc...you get the point.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
We were not always in vet. We couldn't run at all in rookie other than our QB. The stud S* HB we had averaged less than 4 YPC that season. Our running game really didn't pick up until around the end of our seasoned season. Instant sacks on pitches and botched hand-offs really irritated me. We had to do other things, such as the forward pass.

I am all for fixing things that are not working as intended. I just want to see an end to the 100% run teams as they currently are not buff this and buff that across the board.

This is just my opinion think whatever you want to think.


You ran almost exclusively inside since the beginning. To the point where guys were somewhat mad about it early on. Not trying to call you out or anything because I have enjoyed my time on Whoville but you have always been hell bent on running up the gut despite the trends in the game at the time.

Originally posted by Rob.
I think the blocking skills(tech/power) SP costs should be further backloaded. Making it easier and faster to get to 60 but still just as hard to get to 100. This should help with earlier tiers as well as help with balanced offenses. Maybe backload the costs for elusive and power running too.

I can get behind this. I would actually like to build a balance team.

Originally posted by bhall43
You ran almost exclusively inside since the beginning. To the point where guys were somewhat mad about it early on. Not trying to call you out or anything because I have enjoyed my time on Whoville but you have always been hell bent on running up the gut despite the trends in the game at the time.



I don't like TFLs. I let those agents know from the start I like power running and clock control. Outside running is more of a home run type thing. We have 3 downs to get 10 yards. We were stuck with a TE that couldn't catch and a one HB that couldn't break tackles so a TFL on first down quite often led to a punt. I look at everything when scouting, if I see a window for a home run I take it. If it's not there, it's not there. Hell I still defy the trend yet our HB is currently #3 in the HOF.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I don't like TFLs. I let those agents know from the start I like power running and clock control. Outside running is more of a home run type thing. We have 3 downs to get 10 yards. We were stuck with a TE that couldn't catch and a one HB that couldn't break tackles so a TFL on first down quite often led to a punt. I look at everything when scouting, if I see a window for a home run I take it. If it's not there, it's not there. Hell I still defy the trend yet our HB is currently #3 in the HOF.

Right. And I am still on board with what you do. But you came in using the example that we are running into good defenses while we as OC's are being lazy. That is entirely not the case. We are severely limited in playcalling. And it isn't because DC's are on their game, it is because they basically took the defensive playbook and doubled its effectiveness so that even some of the worst play calls stop over 80% of the run play calls well enough to hold a team under 10.

Originally posted by Kayoh

are we counting the 0.29 ypc against 4-3 cover 4, 0.13 ypc against 3-4 cover 2 man under, 0.19 ypc against 4-3 free fire, 2 ypc against 4-3 c2 will fire, 2.13 ypc against 3-4 2 man under robber, 2.25 against 4-3 cover 2 buc, etc etc etc...you get the point.

4-3 man base 5.04, 4-3 Weak LB Overload 11.19, 4-4 Edge Fire Weak 13.75, 4-4 Man Base 6.20, 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger 7.17, 5-2 Man Base 6.72.....Green Light

I see the trend....Man Unders and strong side blitzes don't call, Man base and weak side Blitzes fire away.