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Xars
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Didn't I have a thread on this awhile back that got hammered?

The only thing I can see Chemistry being used for is to adjust ELO ratings. I'm not even sure it should be used for that, but I have no other idea of a positive use of the mechanic.

At least when a Vet team goes inactive/gets filled with CPU, it'll drop a lot in ELO (which is what we want). The complaint was other teams having to regain their ELO when dealing with legit turnover.

It doesn't seem to me that team owners would mind losing and regaining ELO IF (and it's a big IF), they could easily regain enough to move up to a proper Ladder ranking by the end of the season.

Another idea is if a team owner goes inactive and a team loses, then they lose more ELO than normal. Add a multiplier.

What's happening is owners at Vet have their team set to auto-renew. If they are going to quit the game, they stop logging in at the end of the last season. It takes 9 days for the owner to go inactive. He knows he's not coming back, but the system auto-renews him because he's not technically inactive yet. Then during the 3 day Season break, his team fills up with CPU/random players yet they keep the old ELO. (This was in another suggestion thread of mine. Cdog said inactive owners aren't renewed, but at Vet they aren't inactive YET at the time of the renewal. They technically go inactive after renewal and getting filled up by CPU/random players.)

That team then takes forever to drop in rankings. Sure it won't be renewed again the next season, but for one season it wrecks havoc on the Ladder.

So idea #2 is to adjust ELO by a multiplier if a team loses with an inactive owner. This will cause teams that go inactive (technically) in Game 2 of a season to fall quicker in the Ladder.

Idea #1
is to use Chemistry changeover to adjust ELO (& removing the on-the-field penalty of its effects). Teams that stick together while moving up the Ladder (in tiers) season to season won't suffer the penalty and will therefore gain a relative edge on teams that have huge changeover. (which is what a Ladder rank is: a relative ELO) Yes, a few teams will have legit roster changeover and an ELO reduction would hurt them - but it should be temporary (first 5-6 games) enough that good roster decisions are rewarded by season's end. With the removal of the on-the-field penalty, this should easily happen.

Solutions for Bort/Cdog to consider:

1. Increase the K value

2. Increase the ELO adjustment downward when you lose by BIG scoring differentials (like 50+ points and take even more off if a team loses by 100+) - Give people an incentive to destroy CPU teams that are clogging up Vet.

3. If Chemistry is to be even used in this game, use it to adjust ELO. (Better is to just stop using it for anything)

4. Increase the ELO adjust downward for inactive team owners so we don't have team renewals happen and then the owner goes inactive screwing up a season of Ladder games.

Anyone have more?




 
Galithor
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Too complicated Xars. You're overestimating the amount of effort that Corndog's gonna be able to put into this thing.

Just flatten each tier. Simplest, cleanest solution. Let the first half dozen ladder games each season get the rankings sorted out the way it does in rookie these days.
Edited by Galithor on Apr 29, 2015 05:18:00
 
TxSteve
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I think every xars suggestion ever could be summed up "Too complicated, You're overestimating the amount of effort that Corndog's gonna be able to put into this thing."

I do agree a flatten or reset every season is the simplest solution. I don't think it is perfect -- but would be dramatically more interesting than we have now.
 
Galithor
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Originally posted by TxSteve
I think every xars suggestion ever could be summed up "Too complicated, You're overestimating the amount of effort that Corndog's gonna be able to put into this thing."


yeah. not saying they're bad ideas. They're cool ideas. I used to think up some complicated ideas for the suggestions thread too. It's all NGTH ultimately.
 
Xars
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Originally posted by TxSteve
I think every xars suggestion ever could be summed up "Too complicated, You're overestimating the amount of effort that Corndog's gonna be able to put into this thing."

I do agree a flatten or reset every season is the simplest solution. I don't think it is perfect -- but would be dramatically more interesting than we have now.




Probably. Sorry. I've got a tech team at LZ.

I guess I overestimate.
 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by Xars


Probably. Sorry. I've got a tech team at LZ.

I guess I overestimate.


You call my a cynic when I said pretty much the same thing and you just let Steve off the hook.
 
Adderfist
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Originally posted by Parab00n
You call my a cynic when I said pretty much the same thing and you just let Steve off the hook.


A cynic is one person, Popular opinion is when everyone is thinking it but not saying it lol.
 
Xars
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Originally posted by Parab00n
You call my a cynic when I said pretty much the same thing and you just let Steve off the hook.


You are a cynic.

It was sarcasm then and now.

 
TxSteve
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Ok - this is the end.

Started top 20:
Preseason Ladder Rankings at Vet:
1 The Minnesota Stunners
2 Harrisonburg Bulldogs
3 Air Raid
4 MMArmy Jesus Christ Superstars
5 Queen City Brewmasters
6 Djibouti Assassins
7 Rhode Island Falcons
8 Run GLB
9 Run Defenders
10 Gatling Valley Pirates
11 Doinitin Djibouti 2.0
12 Jersey Goons
13 Hillfield Dinos
14 New Jersey Generals
15 Oregon Ducks
16 Minnesota Balanced Raid
17 Fort Collins Stoners
18 Grass Valley Tunnel Trolls
19 Richmond Raiders
20 Doinitin Djibouti


Now top 20:
1 stunners 28-3
2 hburg 27-4
3 air raid 19-10
4 mma 22-8
5 da 27-4
6 qc 22-9
7 run glb 20-10
8 run defenders 20-10
9 richmond 22-7
10 DD 24-7
11 RIF 15-15
12 MBR 19-11
13 Wesley 19-11
14 Oregon Ducks 11-18
15 Gatling 10-19
16 Hillfield 7-22

17 DD 2.0 2-27
18 Whoville 21-10
19 Long Island Knights 18-11
20 Jersey Goons 1-28


Bolded teams way too low. Italics way too high
 
Parab00n
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My complete homer opinion of what the top 10 should look like ending this season.

1. Stunners
2. Harrisonburg
3. DA
4. MMA
5. DD - A lot of people may not agree, but we have beat everyone else that would have a claim.
6. Richmond
7. MBR - If they were active, would probably be at 5 or 6.
8. Run GLB - Another team that should be slightly higher, but went inactive.
9. Whoville - Severely underrated
10. WCW/Run Defenders - Interchangeable at this spot.
 
Stobie
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There is one more game btw.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by Parab00n
My complete homer opinion of what the top 10 should look like ending this season.

1. Stunners
2. Harrisonburg
3. DA
4. MMA
5. DD - A lot of people may not agree, but we have beat everyone else that would have a claim.
6. Richmond
7. MBR - If they were active, would probably be at 5 or 6.
8. Run GLB - Another team that should be slightly higher, but went inactive.
9. Whoville - Severely underrated
10. WCW/Run Defenders - Interchangeable at this spot.


Looks about right. Though we beat WCW by like 40.

Would have liked to get a crack at Richmond.
 
DeeVee8
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Originally posted by bhall43
Looks about right. Though we beat WCW by like 40.

Would have liked to get a crack at Richmond.


Hey, we played DD close in our playoff game...27-24. Played Madisonburg close losing by 6 points, lost to QCB by 13 and then 9 points. Also lost to Run GLB by 6 points and blew Whoville outta the water. All with me randomly choosing defensive playbooks from my coaching staff. I'd say we are top ten material.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by Dee.
Hey, we played DD close in our playoff game...27-24. Played Madisonburg close losing by 6 points, lost to QCB by 13 and then 9 points. Also lost to Run GLB by 6 points and blew Whoville outta the water. All with me randomly choosing defensive playbooks from my coaching staff. I'd say we are top ten material.


I know it is pretty close. I was just jabbin.
 
Galithor
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Originally posted by Parab00n
My complete homer opinion of what the top 10 should look like ending this season.

1. Stunners
2. Harrisonburg
3. DA
4. MMA
5. DD - A lot of people may not agree, but we have beat everyone else that would have a claim.
6. Richmond
7. MBR - If they were active, would probably be at 5 or 6.
8. Run GLB - Another team that should be slightly higher, but went inactive.
9. Whoville - Severely underrated
10. WCW/Run Defenders - Interchangeable at this spot.


eh... Air Raid beat half the teams on this list. A couple of them in pretty significant beatdowns.

Other than 3 losses to Nasville, LiK, Nashville, we didn't lose any other games not on this list. Those were all 1 possession games too.

So I'd say that I probably disagree with no Air Raid on this list, even with our somewhat low cares effort and roster that was partially devolving into legends status most of the season. I'm fairly confident there weren't 10-11 veteran teams that were better than Air Raid this season.
 
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