Warrior General Games

i personally gave up spamming the sweep as my success with it almost made me quit. I enjoy football and watching the qb sweep every play is kinda lame. With that being said i did beat yorick on more than one occasion and the game you referenced (against nebraska) i tried to get cute with it and think about it as a football mind not a gamer

Perhaps you can put in Defensive formation overloads? This would allow us to run a 3-4 or 4--4 but with the linebackers shifted to the strong side (reference almost any EA sports football game for clarification.) It is an adjusment any real coach would implemt If we could just get one more player to the ball then that would be ideal. Realistically man base should be able to stop the the sweep because our defensive players should be shadowing their offensive counter part the weakside linebacker should be taking the pursuit angle along the line of scrimmage until qb gets outside of the pocket before angling towards the end zone. The biggest issue i see is guys in pursuit are getting caught running into guys being blocked. No football player in the world runs into someone who is blocking they are runnning deeper around the block to force the play back inside.

Also why dont players ever cut the ball up on toss plays? They ALWAYS try get wide around a guy thats being blocked.. just ccut it up and get my 5 yards damnit!

yorick does what they gotta do to win and i can appreciate that. It's much like glitchy plays in madden NHL... name the game kids do that stuff all the time because as long as they win they feel good but lack the integrity for a real game. To each his own. Last season if i knew i was playing a spamming team bet your tookus i did it back.

Corndog, the fix could be as simple as pursuit calculations perhaps. Even at 55 pursuit i got guys trying to run through people that are being blocked and get stopped. I dont know if this is possible but there has got to be a way that quickness figures into run block breaking on the edges... yes a Lineman or TE can cream a corner but in that situation how man times in real footall do you see that corner take on a titan by himself? he usually wimps out and tries to go around the outside block using his speed

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Heck... No...

Making any type of change to how defenders react to the run has a huge impact on how defenders move entirely.

You can't want a player to contain if he is not told to contain. If a player is to blitz, he is to blitz the gap that is drawn in the play image, no float around and wait for the magical moment to strike for the TFL or short gain like all of you lazy DCs want.

It just won't happen, and you will end up messing things up more. This is the best sim we've had since glb2 was created tbh. There are no problems DCs can't solve tbh.

tl;dr
Fix your builds, fix your plays

OFC you dont think it is NOT broken because you failed hard with 42 exploiting it. This is not because it is not broken, but because you didnt manage to use it. Simple.

TX is totally right...This shit is broken as hell.

Originally posted by TxSteve
Guess I ought to post this one as well in my "is this good for GLB2" list

The team you run - Yorrick
blowing out a mostly CPU team in league play : 125-14

Your QBs combine for: 28 rushes for 650 yards (20+ ypc) and 12 TD's. I won't bother to go look at how many times you ran the Goal Line Sweep.


But your arguments here are truly in the interest of the health of GLB2, right?


Dude. It's a CPU team with rookies on the roster against a sophomore team.

NERF OFF TACKLE CUZ 65 YD TD! http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/60100/154149
NERF HB SWEEP CUZ 53 YD TD! http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/60100/154700

We scored 17 TD's in that game not because QB sweep is so awesome, but because CPU teams are do bad.

Want a better game to explain:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/54840

That's the Eris League championship from last season. DeeVee and Tampa absolutely lurve the QB Sweep.

Tampa scored 0 points.

So we should nerf them so they score negative points, right?

(yes, I'm getting snarkier as this goes on because you're providing me zero real evidence of a problem and lots of nonsense that doesn't actually answer the single most significant counter-claim I've made: If QB Sweeps are so awesome, why aren't they awesome against good teams, and hence, why doesn't ever single team in the game just run those and nothing else? And I'll save you some trouble. Quite a few have tried and failed dismally because it's not the play that's the problem.)

Originally posted by vipermaw82
Realistically man base should be able to stop the the sweep because our defensive players should be shadowing their offensive counter part the weakside linebacker should be taking the pursuit angle along the line of scrimmage until qb gets outside of the pocket before angling towards the end zone. The biggest issue i see is guys in pursuit are getting caught running into guys being blocked. No football player in the world runs into someone who is blocking they are runnning deeper around the block to force the play back inside.

Which is exactly what I've suggested repeatedly. Have the defense making Pursuit rolls to shuffle down the line and then burst through when there is an open lane to the ball carrier. As an added bonus, this makes defenses work more realistically versus ALL outside runs while at the same time, still requiring DC's to call good defenses and defenders to build good players.

Btw, Yorick didn't beat you yesterday because I spammed QB sweeps. You stopped them to start the game. Most good teams do.

I beat you because I have a gameplan/team design that makes it nearly impossible to stop us for an entire game. It happens, but not often, and I'm working towards making it harder and harder.

Kinda like how Lost Lounge's passing game is nearly impossible to stop for an entire game, or Darkside's whole chaos of things eventually works.

Originally posted by TxSteve
I've exploited the goal line sweep and qb roll out more than most - it isn't good for the game...plain and simple. if you're implying 42 can stop it...you're wrong.

Nah lol.. Both my teams are built to stop the run.

Of course we are in a sim where running will get you yards, plain and simple. But neither AGD2D or 42 will break against these types of plays. But Why? That's because of how we are built and the plays i know to run.

Originally posted by TxSteve
For the non-trolls: other than QB roll out and GL Sweep - name a single other play that has a decent chance of a TD any time it is run. Name a single other play -- that if you knew an opponent was going to run it constantly...you couldn't guarantee a stop.

This isn't the S1/S2 Spread Dive. All these plays can be stopped.

Originally posted by peeti
OFC you dont think it is NOT broken because you failed hard with 42 exploiting it. This is not because it is not broken, but because you didnt manage to use it. Simple.

TX is totally right...This shit is broken as hell.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/62004/280116

I'm not a customer to your talk. I provide links and facts. I don't just talk and cry.
42 Can run the sweep to success if I wanted to, but thats not we are built for yet.

Once again, this isn't broken, y'all just suck. Notice who are complaining about it being broken?

Ya want something that obviously needs nerfed (by this thread's logic):

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/36778

He's averaging 8.6 yards per attempt and 6 TD's per game so far. Talk about being overpowered...

Xav - my last post with you on this. I no longer believe you're being genuine. Your agenda is showing through.


Of course every play in your playbook has scored a long TD - the same could probably be said for me -- but when an inside run for me scores a long TD - its because there were several pancakes and several broken tackles....a LOT of rolls went my way for it to happen.


If you had other plays "as good as QB roll out" - and you are most definitely implying that you do -- then why aren't you spamming them 25 times per game??? answer: because clearly you don't have other plays that are just as good.

I'm grateful that this getting fixed doesn't require your approval.

I agree with you that fixing the D is a better plan (though...that will likely affect dozens of plays rather than just one) but IF a defensive fix will take longer than a few days/weeks -- I'm for stopping the bleeding immediately by no longer allowing teams to EXPLOIT (yes - you are exploiting this) this play to ridiculous levels.

Originally posted by TxSteve
I agree with you that fixing the D is a better plan (though...that will likely affect dozens of plays rather than just one) but IF a defensive fix will take longer than a few days/weeks -- I'm for stopping the bleeding immediately by no longer allowing teams to EXPLOIT (yes - you are exploiting this) this play to ridiculous levels.

Glad you agree on the better fix. Pity you aren't willing to be rational on the ZOMG EXPLOIT.

I'm totally open to being convinced. You've provided me zero evidence that a QB who is built to run in a system built to run is a terrible thing for the game.

In fact, you're giving up this argument because you can't provide me with the evidence that supports your gut feeling. That guy feeling tells you that ZOMG LONG RUN BAD, and all the evidence I've provided that nope, it's not any worse than all the other things good offense teams do just gets ignored because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion.

But, reality again:

Quincy "Hall of Fame" Carter last season: <--- you want him nerfed
4643 yards rushing and 67 TD's

Nick "209" Diaz (also a rookie QB last season): <--- did way more on offense, but he's okay?
10277 yards passing and 89 TD's

"Hurricane" Doug (all the QB's I'm gonna list are rookies):
10787 yards passing and and 96 TD's

Juan Brazocohete:
10526 yards passing and 60 TD's

Kyle Stobie:
8010 yards passing and 60 TD's.

The reality is pretty simple. Good players in good systems that are built for them do really well. But the hands down best rushing rookie QB in the game was NOT as good as the best passing QB's. Not even close. In fact, it's not until you get down into the 50's on the HOF list that you start finding passing QB's that Quincy beat in yardage.

If you want to convince me, you're going to have to go back and explain how Darkside and other good teams shut down QB Sweeps if they're an impossible to stop exploit. How come it's okay for a QB to put up 10,000 yards, but it's bad for one to run for 4000? Why it's an exploit if a team scores a long TD against the worst possible defense on a run, but it's just good gameplay if the same thing happens on a pass?

If you can't answer that, and provide solid evidence (not zomg this team that sucks against everything also sucked against the run) in support of those answers, then you really should give up and accept that your argument is flawed.

Originally posted by Xavori


I beat you because I have a gameplan/team design that makes it nearly impossible to stop us for an entire game. It happens, but not often, and I'm working towards making it harder and harder.



i understand the strategy... you run the 4 headed dragon... what works against the qb sweep doesnt hold the toss sweep, what works against the toss sweep doesnt stop off tackle... what doesnt stop off tackle can be isod... its a chaotic mess that works really

but at the same time its the qb sweep that broke the D

Originally posted by vipermaw82
i understand the strategy... you run the 4 headed dragon... what works against the qb sweep doesnt hold the toss sweep, what works against the toss sweep doesnt stop off tackle... what doesnt stop off tackle can be isod... its a chaotic mess that works really

And with a 100% dedicated to run team design, eventually, Yorick just break teams. I mean, there are only 2 WR's on Yorick, and one is our return specialist. We have two true FB's so we don't wear out on lead blocks, nor do we take OOP penalties. We have TE's who do take OOP to line up at WR, but the built-in advantage they have blocking more than makes up for it.

I can't show you the scrims mutley was running (cuz private), but I was running a 80% inside run gameplan against him and was still putting up 400-500 yards rushing. I suspect as the season goes along, and Yorick's total focus on running versus defenses being required to build for both will get us out ahead for a while, but towards the end of the season when the SP costs for more running skills slow down the growth there, defenses will close some of that gap. And Seasoned season, well, at some point I'll likely at least have to have a threat of a passing game to make defenses play something other than 4-4Big/5-2, or things will go badly.

Yep the problem is you eventually breakdown teams. I'd say only 1 game did we truly shit to your offense down (7 points) then there was the 35-31? Win we had which kind of shut it down. Then most other times eventually it would break us and that was it

Originally posted by Xavori
Glad you agree on the better fix. Pity you aren't willing to be rational on the ZOMG EXPLOIT.

I'm totally open to being convinced. You've provided me zero evidence that a QB who is built to run in a system built to run is a terrible thing for the game.

maybe now we'll get somewhere...my QB last season...who didn't totally abuse this play as bad as some people did...had ZERO RUNNING SKILLS.

He was high leadership, high conditioning -- and toward the end of the season adding pass tech...

He still ran this play just as well as anyone...even though he had 15's for quick/footwork/sprint/etc

Also - you are the one who has moved the goal posts here - and I'll be honest and say I'm disappointed.

Your spiel all along was "good teams can stop it" -- when that was proven incorrect...you're now changing the argument to say "you just want to nerf people".


If I could score a ton with say (just picking a play) - Spread Pitch Strong - and I told you I was going to run it 30 times in a scrimmage against you -- you would shut that play down.

If I chose HB Slam and warned you -- you would shut it down

If I chose Trips pitch weak and warned you -- you would shut it down

If I chose any run other than QB roll out -- you would shut it down if I warned you...

But with QB roll out -- you can't -- that is the issue.

That is the crux of the argument....your claims through the early part of this thread were that "good teams can shut it down" -- that is incorrect - and you know it is incorrect -- but you don't want your baby to get nerfed even though it deserves it...so you're now trying to muddy the waters with passing yards per attempt (which I believe ignore sack yards by the way) and other garbage. You've still never really answered the questions I proposed earlier - you're just trolling here...

Originally posted by Xavori

The reality is pretty simple. Good players in good systems that are built for them do really well. But the hands down best rushing rookie QB in the game was NOT as good as the best passing QB's. Not even close. In fact, it's not until you get down into the 50's on the HOF list that you start finding passing QB's that Quincy beat in yardage.

If you want to convince me, you're going to have to go back and explain how Darkside and other good teams shut down QB Sweeps if they're an impossible to stop exploit. How come it's okay for a QB to put up 10,000 yards, but it's bad for one to run for 4000? Why it's an exploit if a team scores a long TD against the worst possible defense on a run, but it's just good gameplay if the same thing happens on a pass?

If you can't answer that, and provide solid evidence (not zomg this team that sucks against everything also sucked against the run) in support of those answers, then you really should give up and accept that your argument is flawed.

Are you smoking something? Is that the root of the issue - you believe the "best running QB" should be exactly equal to the "best passing QB"? Show me a high level of football where that is the case! NEWS ALERT: High end QB's typically throw for more yards than high end RB's rush fore -- I hope you were sitting down for that one...Top QB's in the NFL regularly pass for 4K yards...there has never been a 3000 yard NFL rusher...should NFL HB's picket and strike because they aren't able to accrue the same stats as Peyton Manning??

I've never even heard of darkside before - get me a team link and I'll go watch some of their film.
The exploit is running a play that can't be consistently defended OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER - as I've said before - if it isn't the inate advantage in the play...why aren't you spamming other things???? Right - because the other plays aren't as effective at producing homeruns...