Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jktooley
I also love how I get the opinion of a guy who is somewhat of a football expert, his entire response is about passing windows and how it relates to QB height, and your response makes no mention of his opinion while trying to refute that fact... so this guy http://search.espn.go.com/gary-horton/ has a complete lack of intelligence too I take it?
I did address it, and I explained why the concept of passing windows is drastically overblown. Just think about this logically. If you're talking about a guy who is 6'0" and 6'2", then that's obviously just a two inch difference. Two inches is really going to be a major factor in whether or not someone succeeds at quarterback? The idea is ludicrous, and yet ignorant fans keep buying into it. Not only that, but teams do as well. Every draft, some team makes a stupid decision when it comes to a quarterback because they overvalue arm strength, just as the Raiders reliably overvalue speed at wide receiver.

Originally posted by
Keep trying to spin things. I'm having a good time.
Dude, you embarrassed yourself by saying that Tony Pike has a "cannon" when he actually has average or somewhat below average arm strength. Because you're defensive and angry about me exposing your ignorance, you're desperately trying to attack me. At the end of the day, I'll still be a guy who gets paid to cover the NFL, and you'll still be a loser whose opinion is completely irrelevant due to a total lack of knowledge.

Originally posted by Abstract Actuary
Hey jd, which 2010 rookie QBs will have good NFL careers?
I won't get heavy into film work until March, plus a lot obviously depends on where they end up. Sam Bradford is the only one I like unconditionally, while Clausen should be decent pretty much anywhere. McCoy, Tebow, and Pike will need to land in the right situation.

Bradford

McCoy

















bag of poop
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everyone else

You do realize right that on page 8, what started this whole argument was you saying

"What? Of all the things you can evaluate about quarterbacks, height is one of the dumbest."

You do realize that assertion has been blown to bits and every comment following has just been bitter bullshit right?

Likewise I hope you realize that I admitted to being wrong about Pike's arm strength about 3 pages back, so the fact that you keep hammering away at that is pretty much pointless...

Originally posted by jktooley
You do realize right that on page 8, what started this whole argument was you saying "What? Of all the things you can evaluate about quarterbacks, height is one of the dumbest." You do realize that assertion has been blown to bits and every comment following has just been bitter bullshit right?
Except that it really hasn't. You still fail to comprehend what "correlations does not imply causation" actually means despite me providing multiple examples to illustrate the point (black quarterbacks, QBs from California, etc). I also pointed out that your trajectory argument was nonsense because offensive linemen don't pass block standing straight up. Moreover, you haven't given a single example of a quarterback who failed at the NFL level because he was short. That was the argument against Doug Flutie for a decade, then he finally got his chance and proved that people like you were completely full of shit. Isn't that true? Didn't teams and scouts and fans rationalize the exclusion of Doug Flutie from the NFL by saying that his height would preclude success? Didn't he prove them absolutely wrong? So who is the proof that being short can make someone a bad quarterback?

Originally posted by
Likewise I hope you realize that I admitted to being wrong about Pike's arm strength about 3 pages back, so the fact that you keep hammering away at that is pretty much pointless...
I'm hammering away at that because only someone completely clueless about Pike would say that he had a cannon for an arm. That's not a simple mistake or a matter of disagreement, it shows a fundamental level of ignorance. To make a statement like that shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Dude, you embarrassed yourself by saying that Tony Pike has a "cannon" when he actually has average or somewhat below average arm strength. Because you're defensive and angry about me exposing your ignorance, you're desperately trying to attack me. At the end of the day, I'll still be a guy who gets paid to cover the NFL, and you'll still be a loser whose opinion is completely irrelevant due to a total lack of knowledge.

But here... Here we have my favorite quote...

You DO get that you write for a 4th to 5th tier fantasy magazine right? You do understand that on the publications website it lists your qualifications as... "JD Bolick He’s been writing articles for the Fantasy Football Guide and other outlets for nearly a third of his life. He’s been a Panther fan even longer." Excuse me for not being impressed by your glowing credentials while simultaneously being a bit jealous over you landing pretty much a dream job. Congrats on that, but I wouldn't throw around your "I write for a fantasy football magazine" hoping that people are going to be impressed and take your analysis as it actually relates to REAL football as some sort of gospel.

FFS, even the point about "OLineman dropping into a squat in pass protection" argument is completely freaking stupid, and that's a position that you played... Sure, if the OLineman isn't contacted, I guess he will have been lowered 6-10 inches, but the moment a DLineman hits him both players begin pushing, and naturally you leverage upwards... unless you get planted on your ass. To illustrate, pause http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I61wBrO3RuA&feature=related at the 1:17 mark... 2 of the 4 OLineman in the picture are no longer in a squated position...

One final point on height for a QB... It's not as simple as 1 or 2 inches of height... Taller people typically have an extra 1-2" advantage in arm reach, and typically have larger hands...

And pleaseOriginally posted by jdbolick

I'm hammering away at that because only someone completely clueless about Pike would say that he had a cannon for an arm. That's not a simple mistake or a matter of disagreement, it shows a fundamental level of ignorance. To make a statement like that shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Sweet... Please keep going back to your lone examples (Tarkenton, Brees, Flutie) of short guys that have had successful NFL careers... Guys that succeed DESPITE their height, and are once in a decade type of players... They also succeed because they had quick drops or great mobility which helped to mask their deficiency in height...



The best part though, is you're asking me to find quarterbacks that failed because they were short... That's like asking me to find centers that failed because they were under 6'9"... Let me give you another scholastic term... Supply and demand. Nobody wants short QB's, so unless they're truly special talents, they don't get a shot... and there's a reason for that.

Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
Bradford

McCoy

















bag of poop
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everyone else

forgot Clausen...

12

Originally posted by jktooley
forgot Clausen...

on purpose

he sucks on the road and in the NFL you have to play road games occasionally.

Originally posted by jktooley
But here... Here we have my favorite quote...

You DO get that you write for a 4th to 5th tier fantasy magazine right? You do understand that on the publications website it lists your qualifications as... "JD Bolick He’s been writing articles for the Fantasy Football Guide and other outlets for nearly a third of his life. He’s been a Panther fan even longer." Excuse me for not being impressed by your glowing credentials while simultaneously being a bit jealous over you landing pretty much a dream job. Congrats on that, but I wouldn't throw around your "I write for a fantasy football magazine" hoping that people are going to be impressed and take your analysis as it actually relates to REAL football as some sort of gospel.

FFS, even the point about "OLineman dropping into a squat in pass protection" argument is completely freaking stupid, and that's a position that you played... Sure, if the OLineman isn't contacted, I guess he will have been lowered 6-10 inches, but the moment a DLineman hits him both players begin pushing, and naturally you leverage upwards... unless you get planted on your ass. To illustrate, pause http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I61wBrO3RuA&feature=related at the 1:17 mark... 2 of the 4 OLineman in the picture are no longer in a squated position...

One final point on height for a QB... It's not as simple as 1 or 2 inches of height... Taller people typically have an extra 1-2" advantage in arm reach, and typically have larger hands...

Actually Jeff Garcia made four Pro Bowls in the last decade, and Doug Flutie made one in '98 if you want to extend back that far. Going back even further, Fran Tarkenton is a Hall of Fame quarterback. Moreover, while he hasn't had much of a chance at the NFL level, Troy Smith won the Heisman despite being fairly short.

Were you trying to be funny? Height doesn't matter for a WR. Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith (NYG), DeSean Jackson, and Hines Ward are all six feet or under. That's six out of the top ten in receiving yards this season. Now of course height can be useful for a wide receiver, but to pretend like it's somehow necessary is silly. The same goes for quarterbacks. You'd rather a guy be 6'3" than 6'0", so I'm not saying that it's completely meaningless, but it ranks somewhere about 86th on the things you should be looking for in a quarterback. Basing your endorsement of a quarterback on the fact that he's tall is hilariously idiotic. I'm 6'3", so does that mean I should be trying out for NFL teams? Come on.

Saying that someone's height is a "huge plus" is just dumb. If you can't handle that kind of criticism, then don't speak on subjects you're clearly clueless about.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT DEATHBLADE.... read better... I didn't say shit about wide receiver height, that was Wiseman... stop posting...


And did you seriously fucking bring up Troy Smith too? Both of you brought up Troy Smith's heisman? Seriously?

Originally posted by jktooley
HOLY FUCKING SHIT DEATHBLADE.... read better... I didn't say shit about wide receiver height, that was Wiseman... stop posting...

And did you seriously fucking bring up Troy Smith too? Both of you brought up Troy Smith's heisman? Seriously?

I suppose this depends on what exactly you mean, but by the conventional definition I think you're wrong. Pike would be a safer pick, but he's also not going to get much better than he is right now.

Originally posted by Deathblade


Actually Jeff Garcia made four Pro Bowls in the last decade, and Doug Flutie made one in '98 if you want to extend back that far. Going back even further, Fran Tarkenton is a Hall of Fame quarterback. Moreover, while he hasn't had much of a chance at the NFL level, Troy Smith won the Heisman despite being fairly short.

Were you trying to be funny? Height doesn't matter for a WR. Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith (NYG), DeSean Jackson, and Hines Ward are all six feet or under. That's six out of the top ten in receiving yards this season. Now of course height can be useful for a wide receiver, but to pretend like it's somehow necessary is silly. The same goes for quarterbacks. You'd rather a guy be 6'3" than 6'0", so I'm not saying that it's completely meaningless, but it ranks somewhere about 86th on the things you should be looking for in a quarterback. Basing your endorsement of a quarterback on the fact that he's tall is hilariously idiotic. I'm 6'3", so does that mean I should be trying out for NFL teams? Come on.

Saying that someone's height is a "huge plus" is just dumb. If you can't handle that kind of criticism, then don't speak on subjects you're clearly clueless about.


Sweet... Please keep going back to your lone examples (Garcia, Brees, Flutie) of short guys that have had successful NFL careers... Guys that succeed DESPITE their height, and are once in a decade type of players... They also succeed because they had quick drops or great mobility which helped to mask their deficiency in height...

The best part though, is you're asking me to find quarterbacks that failed because they were short... That's like asking me to find centers that failed because they were under 6'9"... Let me give you another scholastic term... Supply and demand. Nobody wants short QB's, so unless they're truly special talents, they don't get a shot... and there's a reason for that.

Originally posted by w_alloy
Originally posted by Deathblade



Actually Jeff Garcia made four Pro Bowls in the last decade, and Doug Flutie made one in '98 if you want to extend back that far. Going back even further, Fran Tarkenton is a Hall of Fame quarterback. Moreover, while he hasn't had much of a chance at the NFL level, Troy Smith won the Heisman despite being fairly short.

Were you trying to be funny? Height doesn't matter for a WR. Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith (NYG), DeSean Jackson, and Hines Ward are all six feet or under. That's six out of the top ten in receiving yards this season. Now of course height can be useful for a wide receiver, but to pretend like it's somehow necessary is silly. The same goes for quarterbacks. You'd rather a guy be 6'3" than 6'0", so I'm not saying that it's completely meaningless, but it ranks somewhere about 86th on the things you should be looking for in a quarterback. Basing your endorsement of a quarterback on the fact that he's tall is hilariously idiotic. I'm 6'3", so does that mean I should be trying out for NFL teams? Come on.

Saying that someone's height is a "huge plus" is just dumb. If you can't handle that kind of criticism, then don't speak on subjects you're clearly clueless about.


Sweet... Please keep going back to your lone examples (Garcia, Brees, Flutie) of short guys that have had successful NFL careers... Guys that succeed DESPITE their height, and are once in a decade type of players... They also succeed because they had quick drops or great mobility which helped to mask their deficiency in height...

The best part though, is you're asking me to find quarterbacks that failed because they were short... That's like asking me to find centers that failed because they were under 6'9"... Let me give you another scholastic term... Supply and demand. Nobody wants short QB's, so unless they're truly special talents, they don't get a shot... and there's a reason for that.

Beat me to it.