yea i suppose i didnt look lol - 2-3 level difference is fixable with a great build, 5-6 is gonna be rough for starters
t-money
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Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
yea i suppose i didnt look lol - 2-3 level difference is fixable with a great build, 5-6 is gonna be rough for starters
the only builds that I'm aware of that are capable of equaling "good builds" that are 2-3 lvls above them aren't effective until lvl 25.
yea i suppose i didnt look lol - 2-3 level difference is fixable with a great build, 5-6 is gonna be rough for starters
the only builds that I'm aware of that are capable of equaling "good builds" that are 2-3 lvls above them aren't effective until lvl 25.
FriskyMonkey
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well the trick is making your players flawless 
which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky)
my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out
with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are built
which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky) my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out
with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are builtLast edited Jul 21, 2008 19:07:32
t-money
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Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
well the trick is making your players flawless which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky)
my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are built
Despite being 1-2 lvls shy of the DT you linked, each of my DT's are superior in every respect to that DT.
The DE that you linked is very nice, but I'd be concerned by his lack of production in a lower lvl league. Again, despite being 2 lvls lower than the DE, Sticky Wang is significantly ahead of the DE you linked. Luminous Wang isn't far off, despite being 4 lvls lower.
In terms of primary attributes being "capped" by lvl 10, your approach is superior to the drek that you see in the FA board and the "oh noes my build is gimped" board but you're still not building for the long-term. Perhaps that is a reasonable compromise considering the circumstance of you team, but its still not a build strategy that's going to over-match players built by people who have a reasonable idea of what they're doing.
well the trick is making your players flawless
which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky) my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out
with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are builtDespite being 1-2 lvls shy of the DT you linked, each of my DT's are superior in every respect to that DT.
The DE that you linked is very nice, but I'd be concerned by his lack of production in a lower lvl league. Again, despite being 2 lvls lower than the DE, Sticky Wang is significantly ahead of the DE you linked. Luminous Wang isn't far off, despite being 4 lvls lower.
In terms of primary attributes being "capped" by lvl 10, your approach is superior to the drek that you see in the FA board and the "oh noes my build is gimped" board but you're still not building for the long-term. Perhaps that is a reasonable compromise considering the circumstance of you team, but its still not a build strategy that's going to over-match players built by people who have a reasonable idea of what they're doing.
jearly
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Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
well the trick is making your players flawless which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky)
my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are built
no offense, but neither of those guys would start on my team. I've got guys with higher atts in every category (except for catching) and better SAs....
well the trick is making your players flawless
which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky) my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out
with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are builtno offense, but neither of those guys would start on my team. I've got guys with higher atts in every category (except for catching
) and better SAs....jearly
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Originally posted by t-money
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
well the trick is making your players flawless which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky)
my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are built
Despite being 1-2 lvls shy of the DT you linked, each of my DT's are superior in every respect to that DT.
The DE that you linked is very nice, but I'd be concerned by his lack of production in a lower lvl league. Again, despite being 2 lvls lower than the DE, Sticky Wang is significantly ahead of the DE you linked. Luminous Wang isn't far off, despite being 4 lvls lower.
In terms of primary attributes being "capped" by lvl 10, your approach is superior to the drek that you see in the FA board and the "oh noes my build is gimped" board but you're still not building for the long-term. Perhaps that is a reasonable compromise considering the circumstance of you team, but its still not a build strategy that's going to over-match players built by people who have a reasonable idea of what they're doing.
The DE played in USA pro for most of the season before dropping to BBB for the playoffs.
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
well the trick is making your players flawless
which some how i excell at (wow that was cocky) my flawless DT will stand toe to toe with your level 23 - i can almost guarentee it - short a few SAs and 10 stamina, but there is no way you could have built him better
dont get me wrong 30 skill points is quite the chunk of change, but if done right there is no reason a great level 18 cannot stand up against a good level 23. sure 5-10 points of vision/tackle/stamina may be different, but that arent the clutch skills
your primary skills should be capped by level 10 - so you're talking 2-3 point difference in your primary skills unless you burnt a bunch of those extra points into it which i find unlikely in most cases
ive found through searching the FA market that very few people know how to build their player to peak at level 18 - im more than happy to share my builds - its not really a secret how to build a player's attributes correctly
there are also fun notes that you have to take into account as well - your FB is never going to see as many runs as your HB so he needs to be built for blocking first, your TE will never see as many passes as your HB will see running so he should be built for blocking first
with the exception of some SAs, and natural skill progression via leveling my DE is comparable
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=39404
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=60983 - again a few SAs and natural progression on strength mine is comparable
i have no problem opening my stuff and letting you all check it out
with the exception of low stamina...which is acceptable as a backup...my players have no faults - and i would love your opinions on how they will progress after this season when they hit the point that it aint gonna matter what their level is, but how they are builtDespite being 1-2 lvls shy of the DT you linked, each of my DT's are superior in every respect to that DT.
The DE that you linked is very nice, but I'd be concerned by his lack of production in a lower lvl league. Again, despite being 2 lvls lower than the DE, Sticky Wang is significantly ahead of the DE you linked. Luminous Wang isn't far off, despite being 4 lvls lower.
In terms of primary attributes being "capped" by lvl 10, your approach is superior to the drek that you see in the FA board and the "oh noes my build is gimped" board but you're still not building for the long-term. Perhaps that is a reasonable compromise considering the circumstance of you team, but its still not a build strategy that's going to over-match players built by people who have a reasonable idea of what they're doing.
The DE played in USA pro for most of the season before dropping to BBB for the playoffs.
shaun123987
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I'm looking to cap my DT by level 10 (done with one already) and those players do look good. Dunno why they don't have very good production though.
jearly
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Originally posted by shaun123987
I'm looking to cap my DT by level 10 (done with one already) and those players do look good. Dunno why they don't have very good production though.
they played in USA and Canada Pro this year
I'm looking to cap my DT by level 10 (done with one already) and those players do look good. Dunno why they don't have very good production though.
they played in USA and Canada Pro this year
FriskyMonkey
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Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
truCarl
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Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by prettylew
There doesn't seem to be much chatter about one team moving up that will definitely be making the playoffs next year....the Canton Hall of Famers!!!!
O RLY!?
Originally posted by zoomslowik
I won't argue that we have zero holes, but several of our 18's can play, especially Frisky's builds. They're better than an awful lot of the 20's out there on the FA market that everyone seems to be ready to kill for. I'd guess that I pass on 60% of the builds I click on while scouting the available players because they just wouldn't play for us (and before someone says it, I rarely even look at anything below a 20). Granted you guys probably don't have a whole lot of those, but it just shows you levels aren't everything.
I will wholeheartedly agree that levels aren't the end all be all. But on top of high levels, the GMs in this league know how to build players.
I'm NOT saying you're going to come in and get destroyed every week. You have a good team. But this is just a sick league from top to bottom and hard to just jump right in and make the playoffs.
And im not trying to come in here and say were gonna be one of THE best teams in the West for sure. I just know how good our team is and our builds and strategy etc. and I would be disappointed if we didn't make the playoffs this next season.
Just as long as you guys dont think im trying to come in here and talk shit about owning this league and etc right away, im cool. Thats not what im trying to do, I just have high expectations for our team and what we can do here.
Originally posted by prettylew
There doesn't seem to be much chatter about one team moving up that will definitely be making the playoffs next year....the Canton Hall of Famers!!!!
O RLY!?
Originally posted by zoomslowik
I won't argue that we have zero holes, but several of our 18's can play, especially Frisky's builds. They're better than an awful lot of the 20's out there on the FA market that everyone seems to be ready to kill for. I'd guess that I pass on 60% of the builds I click on while scouting the available players because they just wouldn't play for us (and before someone says it, I rarely even look at anything below a 20). Granted you guys probably don't have a whole lot of those, but it just shows you levels aren't everything.
I will wholeheartedly agree that levels aren't the end all be all. But on top of high levels, the GMs in this league know how to build players.
I'm NOT saying you're going to come in and get destroyed every week. You have a good team. But this is just a sick league from top to bottom and hard to just jump right in and make the playoffs.
And im not trying to come in here and say were gonna be one of THE best teams in the West for sure. I just know how good our team is and our builds and strategy etc. and I would be disappointed if we didn't make the playoffs this next season.
Just as long as you guys dont think im trying to come in here and talk shit about owning this league and etc right away, im cool. Thats not what im trying to do, I just have high expectations for our team and what we can do here.
t-money
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Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
prettylew
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Originally posted by t-money
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
If there was an semblance of truth to your player build I'd sign him on the spot. 82 Strength and 60 Agility on a Lv. 16 DT is amazing!!!
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
If there was an semblance of truth to your player build I'd sign him on the spot. 82 Strength and 60 Agility on a Lv. 16 DT is amazing!!!
t-money
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Originally posted by prettylew
Originally posted by t-money
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
If there was an semblance of truth to your player build I'd sign him on the spot. 82 Strength and 60 Agility on a Lv. 16 DT is amazing!!!
just opened his stats: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=500726
Originally posted by t-money
Originally posted by FriskyMonkey
Originally posted by GO TEXANS
Same here we already have better builds than that.
my mistake - i didnt realize everyone here knew how to build their players perfectly
guys we are in trouble here - they said their players are superior
you guys talk about levels - i find the first few 24+ players i can with open builds and go for the compare - if you want to compare builds then lets compare builds haha
pick a friggin stance and let me argue it haha
well, I'm not going to reveal any of my mature builds, but here's my lvl 16 youngin' DT who is matriculating at the Horn Farm:
Physical Attributes Football Skills
Strength: 82.04 Blocking: 13
Speed: 20.94 Tackling: 28.04
Agility: 59.04 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 23.09 Carrying: 8
Vision: 14.22 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 13 Punting: 8
If there was an semblance of truth to your player build I'd sign him on the spot. 82 Strength and 60 Agility on a Lv. 16 DT is amazing!!!
just opened his stats: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=500726
HydrOshocK
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The offseason hasn't even started and I'm already tired of hearing these two talk. "my player builds are perfect"....yada...yada...yada.
You might want to consider that the rest of us know what we're doing also. We get it, you're confident and cocky and you're not scared of the competition. That's all well and good, but take it from a former BBB champ that was promoted to this league last year..you stand to face some seriously good competition here, and if the sim treats you like it did us this season then you're in for some pretty big frustrations.
Now do us a favor and spare us the pissing contest, you're not really impressing anyone and you're just setting yourself up for embarassment later on.
Like I said, karma's a bitch.
You might want to consider that the rest of us know what we're doing also. We get it, you're confident and cocky and you're not scared of the competition. That's all well and good, but take it from a former BBB champ that was promoted to this league last year..you stand to face some seriously good competition here, and if the sim treats you like it did us this season then you're in for some pretty big frustrations.
Now do us a favor and spare us the pissing contest, you're not really impressing anyone and you're just setting yourself up for embarassment later on.
Like I said, karma's a bitch.
Last edited Jul 21, 2008 21:30:16
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