Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Cuivienen


It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.



I agree...100%, That's not what i have read through this thread though.

Originally posted by Cuivienen


It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.


Originally posted by crazieveggie
I agree...100%, That's not what i have read through this thread though.

Exactly the majority of this thread is focused on them making changes to the offensive plays rather than the root of the issue which is defensive in nature. Maybe my pursuit theory is wrong, I stress maybe because no one offers definitive proof that it is, but the issue is still defensive in nature. Maybe its just the results of discouraging pure offenses that has created this issue stopping balanced offense, but it does prove that the play isnt the root of the problem when it can be stopped when you know its coming, just at the expense of allowing passing plays to beat you.

I think when people say there is an issue with counters in this game, what they mean is that the balance of the sim got upset because of a change and that change was the effectiveness of counters.

Ergo, rolling back counters would return the sim to a more balanced place where passing was still strong but at least you could sell out against it to stop it.

So the consensus is that we should bring back GL outside rushes? Throw in a counter run from the GL too?

Originally posted by Rob.
BEST OF STATS Season 14

Total Offensive Yards *Through 28 Games*
1. Hall of Fame (Sophomore : Vodka) : 847 yards per game (Run Lean, 66% of yards from counters)
2. Djibouti Assassins (Veteran : Hydrogen) : 779 yards per game (Balanced, 56% of yards from counters)
3. EEA 2.0 (Professional : Hannibal) : 749 Yards per game (Run lean, 28% of yards from counters)
4. Panty Obliterating Rectal Ninjas (Professional : Patton) : 748 yards per game (Balanced, 38% of yards from counters)
5. Game of Zones (Journeyman : Cougar) : 732 yards per game (Balanced, 53% of yards from counters)

BEST OF STATS Season 12

Total Offensive Yards
1. Djibouti Assassins (Veteran : Hydrogen) : 690 yards per game (Pass Heavy)
2. Hostile Takeover (Professional : Ash) : 676 yards per game (Pure Pass)
3. Green Bay Packers (Veteran : Hydrogen) : 666 yards per game (Pure Pass)
4. Bronx Bombers (Professional : Ash) : 661 yards per game (Pass Heavy)
5. LogZilla Boys (Veteran : Diamond) : 651 yards per game (Pure Pass)

Awesome posts Rob.

Originally posted by mutleyddmc DTD
So the consensus is that we should bring back GL outside rushes? Throw in a counter run from the GL too?

If GLB2 is supposed to be GLB casual, why are there even custom playbooks and tactics?

Make everyone use the presets imo.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
I think when people say there is an issue with counters in this game, what they mean is that the balance of the sim got upset because of a change and that change was the effectiveness of counters.

Ergo, rolling back counters would return the sim to a more balanced place where passing was still strong but at least you could sell out against it to stop it.
With such a high percent of rushing production coming off of counters, what does it do to running? Specifically what does it do to balanced offenses? IMO A balanced offense should always be more productive than a pure offense due to the degree of unpredictability involved in their play selection. If a mosquito is biting your arm, cutting off the arm does indeed solve the problem, but swatting the mosquito is a better solution.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
If GLB2 is supposed to be GLB casual, why are there even custom playbooks and tactics?

Make everyone use the presets imo.

That's GLB PuP!!

Edit: anyone remember when GLB1 was just put in your percentages for pass and run essentially. No plays to pick from?

yea that was early in GLB

Originally posted by MadCow420
yea that was early in GLB

those were the days. I used to use a RNG to decide what numbers I put in

You had me at mosquito.

Rushing survived (even at rookie) the abolishment of GL QB Rollout -- and it has also survived without GL HB Sweep --- both were clearly broken plays.

You don't leave broken plays untouched because "well what will we have then??" - that isn't a successful strategy for fine tuning the sim.


I think there are a couple of possible solutions. I think we will be LUCKY to get whatever the simplest solution is and are silly to think we'll get some kind of complicated solution. Those solutions are:

- reduce fake out from Counter (as Rob posted earlier) -- it is very possible that this allows/forces run blitzers back into their play designed paths -- solving everything (imo).

- force players to follow their blitz path unless they pass a blitz awareness check (then the are free to do whatever they want).

That's all there is to it.

Originally posted by TxSteve
Rushing survived (even at rookie) the abolishment of GL QB Rollout -- and it has also survived without GL HB Sweep --- both were clearly broken plays.

You don't leave broken plays untouched because "well what will we have then??" - that isn't a successful strategy for fine tuning the sim.


I think there are a couple of possible solutions. I think we will be LUCKY to get whatever the simplest solution is and are silly to think we'll get some kind of complicated solution. Those solutions are:

- reduce fake out from Counter (as Rob posted earlier) -- it is very possible that this allows/forces run blitzers back into their play designed paths -- solving everything (imo).

- force players to follow their blitz path unless they pass a blitz awareness check (then the are free to do whatever they want).

That's all there is to it.





I think the problem is that many don't think counters are actually broken, but that it's the defensive setup that is faltering.

Your point about forcing players to follow their blitz path based on awareness is very good. It's why I think adding 1 or 2 defensive tactics is needed on top of that because it would allow teams to set the level of aggressive for defenders. Much better to allow coaches to tweak these things game to game based on opponent, rather then asking the GLB2 gods every off-season for a fix that just causes another imbalance.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
I think the problem is that many don't think counters are actually broken, but that it's the defensive setup that is faltering.

Your point about forcing players to follow their blitz path based on awareness is very good. It's why I think adding 1 or 2 defensive tactics is needed on top of that because it would allow teams to set the level of aggressive for defenders. Much better to allow coaches to tweak these things game to game based on opponent, rather then asking the GLB2 gods every off-season for a fix that just causes another imbalance.

It's some of the people (not Rob) who abuse counters the most who argue that they 'are fine'. It is self serving. They are protecting their 'precious'.

I have tons of respect for Rob -- for lots of reasons -- but one of them is he super abuses counters right now -- and lobbies for a fix. Others (that I don't have any respect for) simply want to continue abusing their powerhouse plays. All discussion here is in hopes of convincing corndog to take a close look at it and decide for himself (as he did with QB GL Rollout and GL Sweep in years past) -- many of the people who are abusing it cannot be swayed...so there is no point in trying.

I think the chance of getting them to program something new like additional defensive tactics is 0%. The idea is good - but in my opinion spending any time discussing it is just a waste of time. I don't believe they will spend that kind of time on this game anymore.

full disclaimer -- the team I'm working with Madden on next season is planned to be a heavy running team. My arguments with regard to counters simply aren't my own effort to strengthen some future passing team or anything.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
I think the problem is that many don't think counters are actually broken, but that it's the defensive setup that is faltering.



sorry - want to add. The defense DOES falter. The defenders don't follow their assigned blitz paths! The play art is WRONG when facing a counter! Why? Because the sim allows those players to be 'faked' from their assigned path when a counter is run. There is no way to counter that. Man Aware doesn't counter it. Blitz aware doesn't counter it. Pursuit doesn't counter it.

The defense is SCREWED because the counter fake is too strong and impossible to 'roll a save' against.