Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TehKyou
I still think the biggest problem with zone is the awareness check is too random (like I said, over 70 awareness to consistently pass it) and the defenders move to slowly in it. Although that could be footwork/quickness/sprinting related. I kept thinking my defenders wouldn't need as much invested in those stats because of zone, I'm pretty sure I was wrong

Zone is ALL about footwork and quickness.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Zone is ALL about footwork and quickness.

I think if you built a zone defense full of 85+ sprinting guys, you could just say *$&% off to quickness and footwork for the most part.

I've come around to TxSteve's line of thinking on physicals. Footwork's almost totally useless, and quickness is only marginally more useful than totally useless. There's nothing you get from either of them that just taking those same points and dumping them into more sprinting won't get you already.

That said, it's still gonna suck on allowing a ridiculously high completion percentage.

Originally posted by Galithor
I think if you built a zone defense full of 85+ sprinting guys, you could just say *$&% off to quickness and footwork for the most part.

I've come around to TxSteve's line of thinking on physicals. Footwork's almost totally useless, and quickness is only marginally more useful than totally useless. There's nothing you get from either of them that just taking those same points and dumping them into more sprinting won't get you already.

That said, it's still gonna suck on allowing a ridiculously high completion percentage.

We really need to see what Zone looks like at Vet, I keep holding out hoping that they'll make changes but so far they haven't acknowledged it or gave any hints of changes in the future. Not entirely sure I'm willing to dump another $200 into a team that has very little chance of success.

Originally posted by Parab00n
We really need to see what Zone looks like at Vet, I keep holding out hoping that they'll make changes but so far they haven't acknowledged it or gave any hints of changes in the future. Not entirely sure I'm willing to dump another $200 into a team that has very little chance of success.

i think this is the biggest issue, not a single team has taken zone to vet. hard to buff something if you have never seen its end game.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Zone is ALL about footwork and quickness.

From what I've seen I don't agree with this at all. I'm at the point now that Zone pass defense relies on the DL getting pressure pretty much instantly with Spin Cycle, all 8 of my DL will have gold level Spin cycle. If you don't get pressure and WRs have time to run routes you just gave up 15+ yards because deep Zone coverage is terrible. Defenders make sure their is a 5 yard cushion between them and the WR and rarely do they attempt to deflect or intercept the ball. (see replays below) I'm about at the point of trying a Prevent type defense and hoping that a back 7/8 with 3 Star Zone Shark and Monster Hit can cause enough trouble to win a couple games.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/183646/3120927
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/183646/3120987
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/183646/3121243
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/183646/3121768


http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/183646/3121143 - Then you have plays like this where you don't know what your defenders are doing. CB2

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
i think this is the biggest issue, not a single team has taken zone to vet. hard to buff something if you have never seen its end game.

I would assume it would be pretty easy for Corndog or Bort to create a defense and run some tests with it. Or why didn't they encourage the testers to do so. They spent all this time creating Zone Plays, but put very little work into how it works.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
i think this is the biggest issue, not a single team has taken zone to vet. hard to buff something if you have never seen its end game.

I'll be rolling with mostly zone. Ronin only sophomore now, but I will be staying zone-heavy as we tier up.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
i think this is the biggest issue, not a single team has taken zone to vet. hard to buff something if you have never seen its end game.

We haven't?

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/182800/2994460

3/7 plays on that drive were zone plays. I'm not going to go through every play of every drive of every game, but nearly half the plays in one drive being zone means that they probably run it pretty often.

Originally posted by Corndog
We haven't?

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/182800/2994460

3/7 plays on that drive were zone plays. I'm not going to go through every play of every game of every drive, but nearly half the plays in one drive being zone means that they probably run it pretty often.

harrisonburg only runs it to stop run teams, they are definitely a man team. there isnt a single team built to run zone at vet.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
harrisonburg only runs it to stop run teams

So they run it to stop one of the things it's meant to stop?

Expecting to be able to run zone on every player in every play probably should be just as ridiculous as expecting to run man on every player in every play.

zone seems pretty widely used against the run at all levels that I have seen. Only a few plays look to work against the pass. How realistic is an all zone defense though?

Originally posted by Corndog
We haven't?

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/182800/2994460

3/7 plays on that drive were zone plays. I'm not going to go through every play of every drive of every game, but nearly half the plays in one drive being zone means that they probably run it pretty often.

This goes back to my point of teams with little to no Zone Awareness investment run it better than a team with 60+.

Originally posted by Parab00n
This goes back to my point of teams with little to no Zone Awareness investment run it better than a team with 60+

Yeah, you've definitely said that a lot.

Originally posted by Corndog
So they run it to stop one of the things it's meant to stop?

Expecting to be able to run zone on every player in every play probably should be just as ridiculous as expecting to run man on every player in every play.

I personaly and probably a lot of DCs run solely man vs run and pass hell i would even consider cover 1 and cover 2 man. How many teams use cover 2 and 3 outside of run teams? the reality is unless people are trying to purposely run a full zone defense they wont ever look at it. Most dcs use zone for run because of bad outside containment from man but the containment changes may help phase out zone even further.

now im not saying zone is broken or bad or anything my point is simply there isnt enough end game data to determine what shape zone is in so many factors that needs to be tested.