Warrior General Games

MO does work surprisingly well for some of the QB Rollouts. Though not the ones they are probs looking to defend.

Originally posted by TxSteve
Update - 18 hours later or so, I have had 3 genuine questions:
a: how do I stop the QB roll out (ironically)

b: why can't my rookie team complete passes

c: when will my slow built team overtake regular teams in skills

I've also gotten (as expected) 3 or 4 times that in negative comments and ridicule

So - not as many questions as I would have expected - but it was an off day

Just wanted to know if ua re Jack Black...no ridicule detected there

Originally posted by TxSteve
I've also gotten (as expected) 3 or 4 times that in negative comments and ridicule

yep. My comment definitely falls under negative and ridicule.

Originally posted by Corndog
Your suspension notes only show one, and it says it was for spamming.
ya i found that picture too lol.

friggin Zorin holdin a bruva down

Originally posted by Corndog
ldo

But what is the defense doing wrong?

Should I just remove FB from GL so offense only has 10 players? I can't fix something without knowing what's actually broken with it.

Please do not remove the FB...then this game would not be football anymore. I suggest, only let the offense run goalline inside the 5 yard line.

Originally posted by Corndog
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/60937/170655?player_id=74257

That's basically what I see every time against GL D.

Basically the LB just needs more blitz awareness?

None of the outside players ever contain in this game. They just run straight to the line. The 1st thing you are taught if you play on the outside is to contain. Watch the CB2 and LOLB. The QB should never get outside of them...EVER. Also, the FS takes a horrible angle. He runs straight into the line instead of trying to cut off the QB at the side line.

another example (imo) of the broken qb roll out -- sophomore team vs seasoned team.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/61969 (my team)
Sophomore holds Seasoned to 102 yards....except for 3 QB roll outs that went for 3 TD's and 180 yards...
Sophomore team also has a 50 yard TD from QB roll out (soph QB went 13 carries for 88.5 yards)

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http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/61976
Two top 10 soph teams face off.
Nebraska jumps out to a 14 point lead (14-0)
Then Yoricks Offense kicks in with 4 TDs on the QB roll out strong from goal line
Yorick's QB with the most rushes (15) hits almost 19 yards per carry...and 4 TD's - with a single broken tackle.

---------------

Looking at rookie:
RunGLB - who opened their season with a league game where their QB ran 24 times for 411 yards (17 ypc?) and 5 TDs (no broken tackles)
followed up with a ladder opener in which their QB ran 17 times for 314 and 3 TDs (18 ypc)

Sexy Dance Fighters - http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/team/334
league opener: QBs combine for 19 rushes for 300 yards and 4 TDs
Ladder opener: QBs combine for 40 carries for 410 yards and 5 TDs

Midgar Avalanche: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/60603
Opened their season with a 48-0 win where the QB runs for 243 and 5 TD's on 13 carries

Synex Ground: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/60938
opened their season with a 49-7 win where the QB runs for 350 yards and 5 TDs on 19 carries

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It is my opinion that this broken play (QB roll out from GL and HB sweep from GL which I didn't even look at) - is one factor in chasing off new coaches. It will only get worse as the season goes along (based on what I saw last season) as teams are forced to adopt an "if you can't beat them, join them) mentality.

Originally posted by nortobc
None of the outside players ever contain in this game. They just run straight to the line. The 1st thing you are taught if you play on the outside is to contain. Watch the CB2 and LOLB. The QB should never get outside of them...EVER. Also, the FS takes a horrible angle. He runs straight into the line instead of trying to cut off the QB at the side line.

Exactly. Fixing the AI turns the QB sweep into a match between the contain guys and the lead blockers, the way it's supposed to be.

Originally posted by TxSteve
It is my opinion that this broken play (QB roll out from GL and HB sweep from GL which I didn't even look at) - is one factor in chasing off new coaches. It will only get worse as the season goes along (based on what I saw last season) as teams are forced to adopt an "if you can't beat them, join them) mentality.

QB sweep isn't broken. Defense AI is. Think how much better your defensive playcalling could be if you could call outside run defenses (ya know, those plays at the bottom of the available list most people ignore) against teams you know use a lot of HB sweeps and pitches.

Let LB's shuffle down the line until they see a break in blocking to dive after the ball carrier, HB or QB. Let the DE/OLB assigned to contain actually try to work to keep everyone on offense inside of him (and a side bit, let WR's crack down on said DE/OLB).

What you don't want is to just band-aid the issue by nerfing QB sweep. All such a nerf would do is change teams from running QB sweeps to running HB sweeps which tend to be just as one sided at rookie-seasoned level (and really, Queen City still does them)

semantics. The play is broken...or the defense is broken....either way - something is WRONG when this play is run - and it has been 4 seasons. In season 1 - my team ran and benefited from this play (and I felt dirty) - in season 4 the same thing is going on and it needs to be fixed.

If at any given moment HB Slam from the spread had a 25% of a touchdown...no matter where you are on the field - the quick fix (since I assume reprogramming the D is a longer project) is that take Spread HB Slam out of the offensive playbook for awhile (25% is a number pulled out of my butt).


Yes: the longer term solution is fix defensive AI logic. How long does that take? I don't know.

In the meantime though - the play(s) need to go until that defensive logic can be fixed.


To be clear: i run the plays too (not as much as you) - because what choice do I have?? especially when playing someone that I know is going to run it a lot!

It is my opinion this play needs a quick fix (remove plays temporarily or only allow to be called in the red zone)..and this play needs a medium fix: fix defensive AI -- then plays can be re-tested...

but in the current state of the sim - they are TREMENDOUSLY overpowered - and I just don't think that is good for the game....if teams are built to run a single play....because it works at rookie (and beyond) - that is a problem. (I'm not talking about yorick)

Originally posted by TxSteve
(I'm not talking about yorick)

well you should be. its freaking lame.

but anyway ppl. there are ppl who stop the run. this long and ongoing debate is lol because there are ppl who are stopping it.

plays not broken. the run isnt broken. the formations not broken.
DC mentalities are broken.

Serves you right Steve, you shouldn't have reset

Originally posted by Xavori
Let LB's shuffle down the line until they see a break in blocking to dive after the ball carrier, HB or QB. Let the DE/OLB assigned to contain actually try to work to keep everyone on offense inside of him (and a side bit, let WR's crack down on said DE/OLB).


Heck... No...

Making any type of change to how defenders react to the run has a huge impact on how defenders move entirely.

You can't want a player to contain if he is not told to contain. If a player is to blitz, he is to blitz the gap that is drawn in the play image, no float around and wait for the magical moment to strike for the TFL or short gain like all of you lazy DCs want.

It just won't happen, and you will end up messing things up more. This is the best sim we've had since glb2 was created tbh. There are no problems DCs can't solve tbh.

tl;dr
Fix your builds, fix your plays

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Heck... No...

Making any type of change to how defenders react to the run has a huge impact on how defenders move entirely.

You can't want a player to contain if he is not told to contain. If a player is to blitz, he is to blitz the gap that is drawn in the play image, no float around and wait for the magical moment to strike for the TFL or short gain like all of you lazy DCs want.

It just won't happen, and you will end up messing things up more. This is the best sim we've had since glb2 was created tbh. There are no problems DCs can't solve tbh.

tl;dr
Fix your builds, fix your plays

I know you're just trolling dude.

Serves me right? What are you talking about? I'm like 31-2-1 since resetting....my 2 losses and 1 tie were not due to anything goal line related.

I've exploited the goal line sweep and qb roll out more than most - it isn't good for the game...plain and simple. if you're implying 42 can stop it...you're wrong.


For the non-trolls: other than QB roll out and GL Sweep - name a single other play that has a decent chance of a TD any time it is run. Name a single other play -- that if you knew an opponent was going to run it constantly...you couldn't guarantee a stop.


I agree - some random quick fix to the defensive AI has the potential for long term BAD. That's why I want the fix done right -- which in my mind would remove these plays...or make the sim call them only in red zone situations until then...

Originally posted by TxSteve
It is my opinion this play needs a quick fix (remove plays temporarily or only allow to be called in the red zone)..and this play needs a medium fix: fix defensive AI -- then plays can be re-tested...

Except that QB Sweep doesn't work for every team (see Forty Two's epic fail at running it), and even the teams it does work for, it can be stopped.

If it was a case that there was no defense, I'd be right there with ya. But it's not. It doesn't need some emergency fix.

The best solution is what I described, having defenders play the way real defenders do against outside runs. In the meantime, there are oodles of plays that work to stop this one. Do they work 100% of the time? Of course not, nor should they. If there were plays that stopped offenses 100% of the times, we'd be looking at a lot of games with soccer scores...

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
You can't want a player to contain if he is not told to contain. If a player is to blitz, he is to blitz the gap that is drawn in the play image, no float around and wait for the magical moment to strike for the TFL or short gain like all of you lazy DCs want.

You're right, I don't want blitzers deciding for themselves to play contain. I want them to blitz. I also like peanut butter. Do you ice skate?

Your complaint has nothing to do with my suggestion. I want outside players to play like real outside players. I want inside players to play like real inside players. I do not want defenders just rushing the kittenpile in themiddle of the field. I don't want defenders charging towards a ball carrier and letting them get outside in the process.

A: Name another single play (other than QB roll out now...or include HB sweep goalline at rookie) - that has a high chance at a TD every time it is run.

B: In our scrim the other day - 6.5 yards per carry for plays we game planned to stop -- that is acceptable in your mind?


C: Do you think games like this are good for GLB2? http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/59599
Sophomore vs Sophomore - QB has 24 rushes for 586 yards and 10 TDs.


D: Do you think games like this are good for GLB2? http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/59600
Soph vs Soph - one team gets destroyed by GL HB sweeps when they ran GL defenses



YES - some teams can contain it at times (look at our scrim that ended 14-17 but gave up >6 yards per carry).
I agree the best fix is to fix GL defensive AI (or add new plays). So question E: If Corndog were to say (forgive me for speculating) - "this is something I'm not going to be able to get to until the offseason" - would you agree some kind of bandaid would be a good idea for the rest of season 4?


(also yes: i've seen you state many times that your ideas and thoughts are never self serving....and always have the greater good of GLB2 in mind...)

Guess I ought to post this one as well in my "is this good for GLB2" list

The team you run - Yorrick
blowing out a mostly CPU team in league play : 125-14

Your QBs combine for: 28 rushes for 650 yards (20+ ypc) and 12 TD's. I won't bother to go look at how many times you ran the Goal Line Sweep.


But your arguments here are truly in the interest of the health of GLB2, right?

Originally posted by TxSteve
A: Name another single play (other than QB roll out now...or include HB sweep goalline at rookie) - that has a high chance at a TD every time it is run.

In rookie ball, I was scoring a whole lot of TD's with QB slam. And because I'm built for running, practically every play in my playbook has gone for 50+ yards at some point.

Originally posted by
B: In our scrim the other day - 6.5 yards per carry for plays we game planned to stop -- that is acceptable in your mind?

I actually didn't change anything from my normal D for that. My normal D is just pretty good at stifling QB runs for the most part, and runs them down otherwise.

But two running teams putting up 6.5 yards per carry? Have you seen some of the yards per attempt Lost Lounge's passing attack has put up on teams?

Originally posted by
C: Do you think games like this are good for GLB2? http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/59599
Sophomore vs Sophomore - QB has 24 rushes for 586 yards and 10 TDs.

You mean where one team does this:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/59599/364426

The middle blizing goal line D versus an outside run? Yup. That's exactly what should have happened if you pile everyone you have in the middle of the field and the offense runs around the end.

Originally posted by
D: Do you think games like this are good for GLB2? http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/59600
Soph vs Soph - one team gets destroyed by GL HB sweeps when they ran GL defenses

Same problem as above.

You're now trying to use bad play calling to justify nerfing the game. I'm pretty strongly opposed to any attempt to overcome other people's laziness/stupidity.

Originally posted by
YES - some teams can contain it at times (look at our scrim that ended 14-17 but gave up >6 yards per carry).
I agree the best fix is to fix GL defensive AI (or add new plays). So question E: If Corndog were to say (forgive me for speculating) - "this is something I'm not going to be able to get to until the offseason" - would you agree some kind of bandaid would be a good idea for the rest of season 4?

(also yes: i've seen you state many times that your ideas and thoughts are never self serving....and always have the greater good of GLB2 in mind...)


As a rookie, Yukiko averaged 6.8 yards per attempt. As a sophomore, 6.7. As a seasoned, she's at 6.3 (I blame the coverage fixes). Should we nerf passing too because that's just as bad as the 6.5 game you keep pointing at?

Heck, even Darkside which is closer to being a balanced team is just under 6 yards per attempt. Do we need some emergency fix for that too?

Again. If QB/HB sweeps were 100% TD's, they would need to be nerfed. Again. Yorick has scored long TD's with every play currently in my playbook. Again. 6.5 yards per carry isn't out of line for what good offenses do passing or rushing. And again. The sweeps can, and do get stopped pretty regularly.

So no, I'm not being self serving by arguing against nerfing QB sweeps. I'm simply looking at the all of the evidence and drawing a conclusion based on that complete picture, not on the fact that some teams haven't bothered trying to figure out how to slow down running teams, and hence, tend to get obliterated because of their lack of effort.