Warrior General Games

Originally posted by peeti
OK, so first of all you prolly have unlimited flex, so if ever, YOU should pay the flex

Secondly, It isnt impossible to run from what I have seen...Can you not try 5 WR Streaks every single time? Hell yes, spamming deep throws out of 5 WR Sets doesnt win u games anymore like they did in previous Times. I dont think this is too bad to be honest. I hate the comparison, but in real life you actually DO see TEs and HBs on the field^^ In the Meta before All DFogs, TEs have only been junk for Teams playing good teams just like HBs (dont even think of FBs) were. The throwing teams now face some kind of problem here, which is good. Has anyone of them tried only Short Passing plays yet? Or plays with LESS than 5 WRs and then just simply outside Rush on those Blitzes?

The 5 WR set isnt the problem...The problem is Teams were "abusing" the OP passing which worked even when a freaking HB threw whole games^^ The second Problem is that outside LB Blitzes are too easy. Fix THAT before the Man Coverage Change and you would have seen more Plays out of different Formations as the OLB Blitz Plays out of 2 and 3 WR Sets forced ppl to 4 and 5 WRs sets...
Whats now? PPL were so used to those 5WR sets that everyone is now crying as hell and those no TE, no FB and only 1 HB Teams are getting probs, just as those who didnt give their Players the playing Time.

Dont try to "fix" sth that was OP and is now just as shitty as other formations were. Fix the Root Cause of it IMO.

EDIT: Gosh, that German Auto correction is driving me nuts. Live with that crap I write^^

Not impossible to run, but very difficult, and running it with better than 25% success (50% sack, 50% completion on non sacks) is going to require more than playbook tweaks . . . its going to require major player build overhauls to OT's and QB's . . .

But the bottom line is that I agree . . . the solution is not for the developers to nerf and buff . . . it is for OC's to get their heads out of the sand, buckle down, and find solutions rather than whine. That's my plan.

Originally posted by Corndog
Obvious solution is to stop running 5WR like it's going out of style.

Yeah, I don't do that. I run the ball and throw out of three or four formations. Too bad the All Dogs Go was the 100% blitz option out of the three, four, and five WR formations.

From the suggestion thread, probably more approporiate here:

Originally posted by Corndog
It's really weak against inside rushes, tbh

Originally posted by cavalier
Is it really?

Ran a scrim now between Alpine and DD (10-7 end result), two of the top 3 teams according to the ladder. Both teams ran something like 40-50 runs against All Dogs Go and average approx 1.5 yards.

Maybe start using cover man without move? I mean, you shouldn't be able to trick a nickle defence into becoming a quarter defence and allow the LBers to line up as CBs, etc. This should allow some of the WRs to get open right away as they start the play uncovered.

Originally posted by cavalier
From the suggestion thread, probably more approporiate here:

Originally posted by Corndog

It's really weak against inside rushes, tbh

Originally posted by cavalier

Is it really?

Ran a scrim now between Alpine and DD (10-7 end result), two of the top 3 teams according to the ladder. Both teams ran something like 40-50 runs against All Dogs Go and average approx 1.5 yards.


inside runs dont work well at all.

The way it moves the safety down to "cover" the HB really stomps on the inside running plays. I could see 5WR QB slam strong being potentially useful against All Dogs Go. At least you don't have to deal with the safety dropped down in Cover Man on the HB. You probably need a pretty salty rushing QB to really make teams think twice though, and that's assuming you can even get through the blitz line unscathed.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Just got Dogs All Go Blitzed all game from Carolina. Fucking weak man. I'll lose games before I give in to these lame gimmicks.

Originally posted by Corndog
Obvious solution is to stop running 5WR like it's going out of style.

I've changed my mind. If this is the Admin reaction to the instasack, until this is fixed, I'm joining the All Go Dogs Blitz train.

Choo choo!

Maybe when builds get farther along you can get some possession WRs with some break tackle skills and quick hit passing vs man coverage with no cover up top might turn into a lot of chances to break one tackle/make one guy miss and go off to the races...but we're still trying to get guys to run a route and catch the ball, it's just barely getting to the point where we see stuff after the catch.

Originally posted by NiborRis
Maybe when builds get farther along you can get some possession WRs with some break tackle skills and quick hit passing vs man coverage with no cover up top might turn into a lot of chances to break one tackle/make one guy miss and go off to the races...but we're still trying to get guys to run a route and catch the ball, it's just barely getting to the point where we see stuff after the catch.

Problem is that there are just too many skills to develop to make a possession break tackle WR.

You will always fall down after the catch unless you have balance. Balance is also required to break tackles, because you need to be able to survive contact and not fall down. Then you need to get open enough that the QB throws to you, so that means physical skills, route tech, and route elusiveness.

Then you need to catch the ball, which is a combination of Vertical, Rec Hands, Rec Awareness, and Catch-in-Traffic. In order to not drop the ball when getting hit, you need Rec Grip. In order to make the pressure plays, you need Rec Con.

So... now you want to break tackles and get away? Two of the most expensive skills in the game are elusive and power tackle breaking.

Team with no m2m coverage skills; http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/27916

all dogs go with no points put into m2m awr - Still better than every zone defense.

yeah, it sucks all around trying to solve this with your WRs.

Looking into some plays it seems like the guards both react the same - notice the OLBs coming around and start to turn to pick them up, then notice the MLB coming up the middle and turn back to pick him up. Since they *both* move to pick him up, both OLBs run free. Once one guard engages the MLB, the other will turn back to the OLB, but then it's almost always too late - even just one or two step hesitation is fatal.

Now there's also plenty of cases where I saw the O-line just fail. I saw a few instances where the Gs never reacted to the OLB, I saw the center getting insta-beat by the DT and the Guard having to pick him up instead, DEs shoving an OT to the inside and running free. Those are all fine to me; if you rush 6 against 5 blockers AND 1-2 guys torch their blocker, the D-line should win the play. I'm talking about plays where it looks like the O-line is doing what it wants to do, but it's still wrong.

Just adding in something where the two Guards could agree on which guy drops inside if there are blitzers on both outsides and up the middle - an agreement that could fail by having either both guards go down on the MLB or neither guard picking up the MLB, based on pass awareness i guess and maybe QB pocket awareness or whatever it's called - might help make things reasonable.

I haven't studied enough film to know if this is enough to balance things back out, but it seems like it would help. If the guards could pick up the MLB and one outside blitzer the QB might be able to move a bit to avoid the last guy and have another few ticks to throw a pass.

Well question is DD built for the inside run?

answer is probably not. I know absolutely nothing about alpine so I couldn't even make a guess for them...

Originally posted by Adderfist
Team with no m2m coverage skills; http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/27916

all dogs go with no points put into m2m awr - Still better than every zone defense.

This isn't the argument, we currently know zone isn't viable at the moment.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
This isn't the argument, we currently know zone isn't viable at the moment.



His point was that in a team that is not built for man, he ran a man defense and completely shut down a good/above average team, showing how overpowered just a few defensive plays are.

The more I consider man/zone awareness, the more I'm convinced it doesn't do anything outside explicitly what the tootip describes. It helps you recognize run quicker when in man or zone, and it helps you survive Pump Fake and/or Head Fake special abilities.

It doesn't impact your ability to cover a receiver at all outside potentially avoiding their fake SAs.

Originally posted by Galithor
The more I consider man/zone awareness, the more I'm convinced it doesn't do anything outside explicitly what the tootip describes. It helps you recognize run quicker when in man or zone, and it helps you survive Pump Fake and/or Head Fake special abilities.

It doesn't impact your ability to cover a receiver at all outside potentially avoiding their fake SAs.

I'm pretty sure it impacts your ability to react to the ball, but when you're running with the WR with your back to the QB the difficulty of reacting to the throw or the ball in the air is REALLY high so your awareness doesn't seem to matter much.