Warrior General Games

For the record... How I would rank attributes per quarterback success...

Mental Toughness/Intelligence/Judgement: first and foremost I want a QB that can diagnose the field and doesn't rattle easily

Accuracy: More important than velocity/arm strength... The ability to throw into a tight window or properly lead a receiver

Velocity/Arm Strength: Tight spiral, ball gets there quick, and can stretch the field

Leadership: Leadership and game management. Think Peyton Manning and the ability to run a 2 minute drill

Release: Short motion. Can get the ball out of his hands in a hurry

Footwork: Dropback abilities. Ability to move comfortably in the pocket and avoid a pass rush

Work Ethic: Willing to put in the extra work to be successful. Extra time spent with receivers.

Height/Size: no need to elaborate...

Durability: As Height/Size will be a factor in durability, I ranked height/size above durability... Quarterback is a position where you need consistency. Resistance to injury establishes consistency.

Mobility: Ability to improvise when the pocket breaks down. Can keep a play alive with his feet.




I guess you COULD drop height/weight off of the list and find another 75 more important traits, but I would like to see it... What would they be? Hair color? Willingness to use laser removal to get rid of a huge face mole? Celebrity status? Fill me in guru.

jdbolick,

Dear fantasy football quarterback projection guru, please make sure you take the time to check out Gary Horton's ESPN chat from today. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30478/nfl-with-gary-horton

I'm justin (indianapolis), and took the time to ask him to help settle our little disagreement. I'm sure you will find the opinion of an actual football expert to be relevant vs. that of a fantasy football hack like yourself.

Justin (Indianapolis)


Help settle a bet Gary! I'm "enjoying" an argument with a guy that considers himself to be a quarterback expert. We are arguing the value of height as it relates to a quarterback. I'm suggesting that it would be found somewhere in the top 10 of most important traits/abilities at the qb position. What are your thoughts?
Gary Horton
(4:12 PM)


I think height is very important in the evaluation process. Drew Brees is a unique player because he lacks that height. But he has an innate ability to move around in the pocket and find passing windows. He throws through them instead of over them. When you're 6-5, you can look over the offensive line and you don't need those windows. That's an advantage. Brees is a rarity because of that ability. I think there are a lot of guys that can't do that. Doug Flutie made a career in the NFL with his ability to find those windows. In my opinion you win your bet.


Background re: Gary Horton

Horton spent 10 years in the NFL as a scout and another 10 years at the college level as an assistant coach and recruiter. He is the founder and most seasoned member of the Scouts Inc. staff, and his extensive experience at all levels of football make him an excellent talent evaluator.

Originally posted by jktooley
For the record... How I would rank attributes per quarterback success...

Mental Toughness/Intelligence/Judgement: first and foremost I want a QB that can diagnose the field and doesn't rattle easily

Accuracy: More important than velocity/arm strength... The ability to throw into a tight window or properly lead a receiver

Velocity/Arm Strength: Tight spiral, ball gets there quick, and can stretch the field

Leadership: Leadership and game management. Think Peyton Manning and the ability to run a 2 minute drill

Release: Short motion. Can get the ball out of his hands in a hurry

Footwork: Dropback abilities. Ability to move comfortably in the pocket and avoid a pass rush

Work Ethic: Willing to put in the extra work to be successful. Extra time spent with receivers.

Height/Size: no need to elaborate...

Durability: As Height/Size will be a factor in durability, I ranked height/size above durability... Quarterback is a position where you need consistency. Resistance to injury establishes consistency.

Mobility: Ability to improvise when the pocket breaks down. Can keep a play alive with his feet.




I guess you COULD drop height/weight off of the list and find another 75 more important traits, but I would like to see it... What would they be? Hair color? Willingness to use laser removal to get rid of a huge face mole? Celebrity status? Fill me in guru.

Shouldn't arm strength and throwing technique be two different items on this list? Throwing hard is different from throwing a tight spiral.

These last few pages show JD's inability to realize he is wrong on a subject perfectly.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
These last few pages show JD's inability to realize he is wrong on a subject perfectly.

you actually read that shit?

laps, all of you

Originally posted by Deathblade
laps, all of you

and u

Originally posted by Deathblade
laps, all of you

i has doctors note

Hey jd, which 2010 rookie QBs will have good NFL careers?

Originally posted by sckbleh
Shouldn't arm strength and throwing technique be two different items on this list? Throwing hard is different from throwing a tight spiral.

I think "velocity" would be a better category than arm strength... Not necessarily saying just how far a QB can throw, but the speed he gets on the ball and having a tight rotation...

Originally posted by Abstract Actuary
Hey jd, which 2010 rookie QBs will have good NFL careers?

he can't hear you right now... He's too busy trying to figure out a way to spin this latest volley...

Originally posted by jktooley
Let me try your argumentative style. You're wrong. You're a moron. You're clueless. Better?
No, you're imitating ITS. I actually explain why you're wrong before expressing just how much disdain I have for your complete lack of intelligence.

Originally posted by
When I say "Huge" and then say it's somewhere near the bottom half of the top 10, I'd say that means it's still pretty important, and it is...
No, when you say "huge" and then go on to say that it's "somewhere near the bottom half of the top 10," that means you know that you fucked up by saying "huge" and are trying to redefine your position to something more reasonable. You said something dumb, you realized you said something dumb, and now you're attempting to change what you said to what you "really meant."

Originally posted by
When you quote me as saying I see Manning make throws a short quarterback couldn't make, the fact remains that there is truth in my point.
Let me clue you in again since you're so preposterously ignorant about football. #1) Offensive linemen don't block while standing straight up. Have you ever watched a football game? Because a guy measures 6'5" when standing up straight doesn't mean that he's occupying 77 inches of vertical space. While you were sitting with the other members of the band staring at cheerleaders, I was actually playing at offensive tackle. When pass blocking, you take a wide base and sink your hips in order to attain a lower center of gravity that helps you stay balanced. Proper technique will bring your "height" down about a foot and a half. So the 6'5" guy is taking up about 59 inches of vertical space while pass blocking.

Meanwhile quarterbacks generally have a throwing motion that takes the ball by the top of the head or slightly above. Of course there are exceptions like Vince Young and Philip Rivers, but they're in the minority. So there are virtually no throws that a 6'0" cannot make due to trajectory. Of course defensive linemen can get their hands up and knock the ball down, but that's true of any quarterback.

Originally posted by
As far as your attempt to suggest that Rex Grossman offsets Drew Brees in the statistical analysis that I presented earlier, once again you look like a blooming fucking idiot. Basic reading comprehension would allow you to understand that this study was based off of statistics from 2006, 2007, and 2008.
What you posted makes no mention of when those statistics come from. For reading comprehension to take effect, wouldn't there have to be something to read? Moreover, you continue to fail at grasping the statistical concept of causation. Instead of separating black quarterbacks, you could do the same by comparing quarterbacks born in California to quarterbacks born in Missouri. The quarterbacks from California have a much higher completion percentage and a better TD / INT ratio. Is it because they were born in California? Of course not, because the correlation is not a result of causation.

Originally posted by jktooley
For the record... How I would rank attributes per quarterback success...

Mental Toughness/Intelligence/Judgement: first and foremost I want a QB that can diagnose the field and doesn't rattle easily

Accuracy: More important than velocity/arm strength... The ability to throw into a tight window or properly lead a receiver

Velocity/Arm Strength: Tight spiral, ball gets there quick, and can stretch the field

Leadership: Leadership and game management. Think Peyton Manning and the ability to run a 2 minute drill

Release: Short motion. Can get the ball out of his hands in a hurry

Footwork: Dropback abilities. Ability to move comfortably in the pocket and avoid a pass rush

Work Ethic: Willing to put in the extra work to be successful. Extra time spent with receivers.

Height/Size: no need to elaborate...

Durability: As Height/Size will be a factor in durability, I ranked height/size above durability... Quarterback is a position where you need consistency. Resistance to injury establishes consistency.

Mobility: Ability to improvise when the pocket breaks down. Can keep a play alive with his feet.
Not a bad list aside from the fact that you're still listing height too highly just to keep from conceding the point. Clearly things like durability and mobility will be more important than how tall you are. If you can't stay on the field, then none of the rest really matters. Mobility is also drastically underrated, as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (pre-knee at least) move around the pocket fluidly to avoid pressure.

Originally posted by
These last few pages show JD's inability to realize he is wrong on a subject perfectly.
I admit I'm wrong when I am actually wrong. I was wrong about the Vikings beating the Saints, I was wrong about whether or not Bort should have a World League, and I was wrong in thinking that DL24 would be the world's worst moderator. What your comment illustrates is simply the fact that you wish I was wrong because you still have sore feelings towards me. I'm not wrong about this. Height is not a "huge plus" for a quarterback. It's relevant, but very minor.


Originally posted by jktooley
jdbolick, Dear fantasy football quarterback projection guru, please make sure you take the time to check out Gary Horton's ESPN chat from today. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30478/nfl-with-gary-horton I'm justin (indianapolis), and took the time to ask him to help settle our little disagreement. I'm sure you will find the opinion of an actual football expert to be relevant vs. that of a fantasy football hack like yourself.
"Hack," huh? Good grief. Stop trying to denigrate what I do simply because you're bitter about being an irrelevant loser who knows nothing, while arguing against someone who clearly knows a lot. I don't expect you to know the contents of our magazine by heart the way that I do, but if you were less defensive and more mature about this discussion then you certainly could have asked. Had you done so, you might have founded out that I have corrected evaluated every high round quarterback for the last seven years who entered the NFL Draft with three notable exceptions. I thought Matt Leinart and Byron Leftwich would both be better than they have been, and I though that Philip Rivers' well below average arm strength would prevent him from being a top quarterback (although I praised his accuracy, touch, and intelligence). Every other quarterback that I have covered during that period, I've been proven correct. These things are all in print, so you don't just have to take my word on that.

Originally posted by Gary Horton
I think height is very important in the evaluation process. Drew Brees is a unique player because he lacks that height. But he has an innate ability to move around in the pocket and find passing windows. He throws through them instead of over them. When you're 6-5, you can look over the offensive line and you don't need those windows. That's an advantage. Brees is a rarity because of that ability. I think there are a lot of guys that can't do that. Doug Flutie made a career in the NFL with his ability to find those windows. In my opinion you win your bet.
Good show, but I obviously disagree with Mr. Horton. By the way, I also have a better recent record at projecting quarterbacks than he does. Old school scouts, just like the teams they work for, drastically overvalue build and arm strength when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks. They want guys with big arms and who look the part, hence the Jay Cutler infatuation. Meanwhile show me even one example of a quarterback who failed at the NFL level because of his height.


And let's not forget in all your filibustering that you said that Tony Pike had a "cannon." That was just how completely clueless you are about this subject. You don't know about quarterbacks, you don't know about players, and you don't know about football.

I also love how I get the opinion of a guy who is somewhat of a football expert, his entire response is about passing windows and how it relates to QB height, and your response makes no mention of his opinion while trying to refute that fact...

so this guy http://search.espn.go.com/gary-horton/ has a complete lack of intelligence too I take it?

Keep trying to spin things. I'm having a good time.