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Forum > Position Talk > O Line Club > Pulling Guard Speed, Agility, and Vision Comparison
David Bean
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Pulling Guard Speed, Agility, and Vision Comparison

Last season (season 3), I created four guards to test which was important for pulling--speed, agility, or vision. Turns out that the most important thing was for Bort to change the pathing for guards, because pretty much everyone is pulling well in season 4.

kcfdx was kind enough to let me borrow his team for the two scrimmage games at the beginning of the season. In general, what I found was that agility was most important, then vision, then speed. This is based upon watching the replays. There were not enough "bad" plays by the four guards to offer any real proof. You are welcome to form your own opinion based upon the play of your guards or watching these replays.

These are the four test guards:
Red Bean (40 agility, 40 vision, 20 speed)
Blue Bean (20 agility, 40 vision, 40 speed)
Garden Bean (20 agility, 40 vision, 40 speed)
Wax Bean (30 agility, 30 vision, 30 speed)

Here are the two games. The guards are on the Tibet Psychonauts:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=83178&mode=pbp
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=83177&mode=pbp

Here are all their plays:

Red (no speed)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783414
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784101
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784469
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784519
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784888
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364483
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365483
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366148

Blue (no agility)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784602
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785884
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786077
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783963
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784005
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784422
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784962
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786030
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786384
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786588
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364203
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364455
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366489
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365007
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366892

Garden (no vision)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783458
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783512
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785526
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785653
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785962
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783363
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783765
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783820
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784021
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784558
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785568
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786461
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364147
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364368
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364512
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364898
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364951
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365051
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365362
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365954
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366065

Wax (balanced)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784156
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784245
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785129
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=785843
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786066
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786624
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783498
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786360
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=786447
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365117
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366090
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364247
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=364537
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365034
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=365451
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83177&pbp_id=366108
Last edited Aug 19, 2008 06:21:36
 
Melancholy
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very nice, I appreciate you posting this. I've been looking for something like this, and although the sample size is obviously small, it's cool to see.
 
Absolut Zero
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You put the same agi/vis/spd for red and garden bean up above. you differentiate it above the replays so it's not like it matters too much...whatever

anyways, i was thinking about creating a G next, and really wanted to make one excel at pulling, this is awesome, thanks man
Last edited Aug 19, 2008 01:26:42
 
David Bean
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Originally posted by Absolut Zero
You put the same agi/vis/spd for red and garden bean up above. you differentiate it above the replays so it's not like it matters too much...whatever


Oops. I've fixed that in the original post now.

 
m_unit
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So what do people conclude from watching the replays? I'd say Red Bean is the best at pulling.
 
powerslacker
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I actually liked Blue slightly better than Red. Red seemed a bit more willing to crack back on the interior instead of staying out on the pull.

That's probably a flaw with the AI rather than the builds though. Vision is clearly king for pulling.
 
Absolut Zero
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Originally posted by powerslacker
I actually liked Blue slightly better than Red. Red seemed a bit more willing to crack back on the interior instead of staying out on the pull.

That's probably a flaw with the AI rather than the builds though. Vision is clearly king for pulling.


Really, blue? The all speed-vis looked good sometimes, but others he'd outrun the HB into the secondary to block a safety and a LB would come up and tackle him. If he was slower he'd have picked up the LB instead of going all the way into the secondary to get the safety.
 
powerslacker
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Originally posted by Absolut Zero

Really, blue? The all speed-vis looked good sometimes, but others he'd outrun the HB into the secondary to block a safety and a LB would come up and tackle him. If he was slower he'd have picked up the LB instead of going all the way into the secondary to get the safety.


Fair point.

I just hated seeing Red go back to take on interior guys that were already out of the play so often:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=783414
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784101
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=83178&pbp_id=784469

I think if pulling was optimally implemented, Red's build would be better than Blue's. The whole point of pulling is to block outside guys, not guys in the middle.
 
Absolut Zero
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Does the speed of the HB matter? Like if it's an elusive back is the G gonna follow him outside more often to stay ahead of the back?
 
tengu
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I think one thing this does show is how broken pitches are, I mean come on why the hell is the RB taking forever to turn up the field.
 
powerslacker
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Originally posted by tengu
I think one thing this does show is how broken pitches are, I mean come on why the hell is the RB taking forever to turn up the field.


+1
 


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