Warrior General Games

Jittery had a bit of a cost in salary, and at the tuning it and LR are at, it needed one; because it dominates KR in every way. It gives more Snap Reaction and throws in some Quickness.

Not all traits are equal, but I don't know of one that directly dominates the other, that is better no matter what you want.

I'd probably flip (probably only for new creations) the Snap Reaction bonus between Lightning Reflexes and Jittery, since they now cost the same. So LR would give a tiny bit more Snap Reaction but Jittery would give a bit of Quickness as a bonus.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you fully, but Jittery is better than LR because it costs salary.

Originally posted by ellix
I'm not sure I'm understanding you fully, but Jittery is better than LR because it costs salary.

Jittery no longer has a cost associated with it and is not only a stronger bonus to SR but has a quickness bonus on top.

Originally posted by Raid
Jittery no longer has a cost associated with it and is not only a stronger bonus to SR but has a quickness bonus on top.

Apologies I was remembering it having a 6% cost from Scout. It looks like LR just got missed in the trait rework. Yeah it's strictly worse than Jittery, something to look into eventually.

Originally posted by ellix
Apologies I was remembering it having a 6% cost from Scout. It looks like LR just got missed in the trait rework. Yeah it's strictly worse than Jittery, something to look into eventually.

Mistakes ain't the end of the world - if they were I'd have doomed us all 3 times since breakfast.

Originally posted by Raid
Jittery no longer has a cost associated with it and is not only a stronger bonus to SR but has a quickness bonus on top.

That's the point. Stobie's scouting tool never listed or applied the cost, as I recall. It definitely was listed in the trait description, but it turned out that it was never applied. Stobie explained it wasn't in his scouting tool because it was never applied. The true error was not applying it. On at least one occasion I chose Lightning Reflexes over Jittery to avoid the salary cost, which never existed.

I'd guess Bort would have just applied the salary cost in the code, but then guys with Jittery would have seen their salaries suddenly go up, and some owners not over budget would have quickly become over budget. So he removed the claim of the cost, which was the right thing to do. But with no cost difference Jittery dominates LR in a way no trait dominates another. It probably would be easier to implement the changes to Snap Reaction costs, hopefully only applied to new creations, but it could be applied to everyone as long as current skills are not changed, just future purchases.

It isn't a big deal: Just everyone in the future who has a brain could choose Jittery over LR, only using LR when wanting Snap Reaction from traits SO much as to take both. But it does seem easy to fix without messing up existing builds. At the worst the costs for future additions would change, including respecs. But as long as current builds aren't changed it should be easy, even if it isn't that big a problem.

Darn, I just went back through the Trait Rework discussion and it was entirely missed.

I think I would rather just see lightning reflexes get a bump in the right direction over nerfing jittery.

Some potential ideas:
1)Include a small increase to "react to the ball" skills?

2) Increase the bonus of what's already existing, Making the % reduction larger and/or giving more cap.

Originally posted by Adderfist
Darn, I just went back through the Trait Rework discussion and it was entirely missed.

I think I would rather just see lightning reflexes get a bump in the right direction over nerfing jittery.

Some potential ideas:
1)Include a small increase to "react to the ball" skills?

2) Increase the bonus of what's already existing, Making the % reduction larger and/or giving more cap.


I'd be fine that sort of thing, either keep Jittery the same but give Lightning reflexes for future builds a discount of a couple percentage points higher than Jittery and a much higher bonus to maximum. Essentially what Workhorse has, creating some balance with Thick Skin, is that while Thick Skin reduces the cost of two other attributes as well, and its discount to Conditioning is only 2% less than Workhorse, I think, Workhorse gives a much bigger bonus to Conditioning's max.

I doubt this was an oversight when rebalancing traits. It's probably more that if Jittery had the 6% increase in salary that I think it was meant to have, there would be a balance between saving salary and getting Jittery's extra bonuses. It's just that the salary cost was never added to the code, and putting it in now would mess with current teams' budgets, so it can't be added, so another way to balance them needs to be found.

Yeah, I'm sure you're correct after reading the discussion about balancing these. It's missing the 6%

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