Warrior General Games

Is snap reaction on a HB useless? I remember one of the developers mentioning that all hand offs are scripted so snap reaction isn't used during a hand off or pitch?

Originally posted by Cybertron
Is snap reaction on a HB useless? I remember one of the developers mentioning that all hand offs are scripted so snap reaction isn't used during a hand off or pitch?

Useless when the HB is the ball carrier (handoff or pitch).

If you need them to do more than just rush it’s useful to have.

If they’re just running it’s not really relevant

This was from the change log:
Snap reaction calculations have been modified to have a little wider potential range, and the snap reaction roll now partially determines a player's starting balance. Recall that balance affects acceleration, turning, and max speed, as well as blocking/tackling interactions, and is recovered fairly quickly over time.

Must be why sure footed fires when he takes off...

Originally posted by Xars
Useless when the HB is the ball carrier (handoff or pitch).



I use to think this, but look at this play. The HB doesn't move until the 13 tick mark and is the last player to move. If all hand offs are scripted, all HBs would move at the same tick count during a hand off. I am thinking snap reaction does impact the HBs during hand offs.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1299555?player_id=348603

Originally posted by Cybertron
I use to think this, but look at this play. The HB doesn't move until the 13 tick mark and is the last player to move. If all hand offs are scripted, all HBs would move at the same tick count during a hand off. I am thinking snap reaction does impact the HBs during hand offs.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1299555?player_id=348603

Unless CD is lying to us directly, they are scripted entirely to the point of handoff/pitch. The timing and movement speeds are all equalized because when QBs got too slow or HBs got too fast or vice versa the handoffs and pitches were failing to happen. They couldn't code a workaround, so they just hard-coded the movement to the point of handoff/pitch.

Originally posted by Raid
Unless CD is lying to us directly, they are scripted entirely to the point of handoff/pitch. The timing and movement speeds are all equalized because when QBs got too slow or HBs got too fast or vice versa the handoffs and pitches were failing to happen. They couldn't code a workaround, so they just hard-coded the movement to the point of handoff/pitch.

Ok...then how do you explain that play I posted?

Originally posted by Xars
Useless when the HB is the ball carrier (handoff or pitch).



I thought last season they mentioned snap reaction does have a value on the rbs even during a hand off

Originally posted by Cybertron
Ok...then how do you explain that play I posted?

slam tends to have the HB start late, is that really inconsistent with the times you've run it before?

Who knows, maybe it has been changed and they just didn't bother to tell us, I didn't see anything about it changing in the changelog.

Here is another play that isn't a slam.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789583/1353023?player_id=348603

You have to check instances of the same exact play run multiple times to see if there is variance in snap reaction or not. For example:

1. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/786878/842198 - 8 ticks
2. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782529/862379 - 9 ticks
3. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782543/1127159 - 9 ticks
4. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782500/199391 - 9 ticks
5. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782500/201000 - 8 ticks

With the exact same players running the same play, the HB reacts to the snap at different times.

Snap reaction does function for HBs on runs.

This, however, is not the end of the story!

Even with the snap reaction varying per play, the handoff time is the same. No matter what, the QB hands the ball off to the HB at the 15 tick mark. This is even consistent for slow ass rookie players running the same play:

1. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/786898/817173 - 15 ticks
2. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/785700/544771 - 15 ticks
3. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/783264/334562 - 15 ticks

Just like the Vet clips, the handoff occurs at 15 ticks exactly.

And you'd think this is the end of the story as well... Raid and GE are both right, there is snap reaction variance but the plays are still scripted... but there's more??

In all 8 of the previous examples, the HB reacted to the snap between 8-9 ticks and always got the handoff at 15 ticks. But I ran into a few outliers by accident, and when the HB reacted at 10 ticks, the handoff occurred at 16 ticks instead...

1. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782330/207635
2. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/786898/817170

Weirdly, all of these occur at clean numbers. There is no 8.5 or 9.5 or 15.5 tick, only whole numbers, which suggests to me that handoffs are indeed scripted, albeit... non-intuitively. I would propose that this is how it works: Snap reaction is rolled for the HB and is rounded to the nearest scripted number, which belongs to a range of snap reactions that correspond to a particular scripted handoff time. Snap reactions in the range of 8-9 mean a handoff at 15, and snap reactions at 10 (and, possibly, 11) correspond to a handoff at 16. Speed and quickness have no effect.

Will do some more digging later to see if this holds true or if it gets weirder.

HB doesn't even move until tick 13 and gets the handoff at tick 21.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1299555?player_id=348603

In the same game, the same play, HB moves at tick 12 and gets the hand off at tick 20.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1298959

There are 8 ticks between HB movement and handoff. If you watch the QB, he takes the snap and just stand there for 10 ticks before moving. I think the play is "scripted" but the QB and HB are tied to the snap reaction of the HB. The ball is handed off 8 ticks after the HB moves.

These are just 2 examples though.

Originally posted by Cybertron
HB doesn't even move until tick 13 and gets the handoff at tick 21.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1299555?player_id=348603

You're a bit off - he gets the handoff at tick 20. Look at when the star disappears from under the QB and appears under the HB instead.


Originally posted by Cybertron
In the same game, the same play, HB moves at tick 12 and gets the hand off at tick 20.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1298959

GE... are you trolling? Lmao... There is no handoff on this play, the QB botches it. This should 100% be thrown out as unusable data, because we have no idea when the handoff would have occurred.

I can't really comment on comparing these two plays, but if the "scripted" part of a play is the duration between HB movement and handoff, how do you explain my examples from above where both 8 and 9 tick snap reactions result in the same handoff time of 15?

Originally posted by Kvothe27
Weirdly, all of these occur at clean numbers. There is no 8.5 or 9.5 or 15.5 tick, only whole numbers

Every thing in the game happens at whole numbers. The game is only calculated in ticks, not half ticks. Half ticks are a visual estimation of what happens between the two calculated ticks.