Anybody built an offense or defense around First Strike?
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Game Help > First Strike team
Raid
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It got a big nerf after it first got introduced and it's been mainly a filler since, but I've always thought it had some merit - especially on the line.
Raid
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Originally posted by rabidlizard24
FWIW I have liked it on the Grape Apes
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
FWIW I have liked it on the Grape Apes
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
Xars
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Originally posted by Raid
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
To each his own, but to me it depends on your player's build, what you expect him to achieve and what the opposing build is like. I think those things are more important than just position. Since it's an SA, it competes with other SAs for a spot on your player build. Some positions have multiple SAs you want (for that player with that build for your specific strategy -- I think this is really key) and as such it can either be very high priority or very low.
For example, on LogZilla I've added it to my WRs. Typically, my WR1 and WR2 builds are Catch in Traffic types that don't go for Elusiveness/Sprinting, etc. I don't build them as burners because I'm ALWAYS targeting my TE as my primary receiver AND I don't use the Quick Read SA on my QB. I want my QB focused on my TE as long as possible since that's my Superstar. As such, the only SA that I've liked in the past is Gold Prime Time on them. First Strike is an excellent 2nd SA choice for them as my Snap Reaction cap is decent and I'm not building for Head Fake, Catch in Stride or First Step. If I'm running 80 Offensive plays a game, at Gold, I should get 15 First Strike fires (17% fire rate on a 35% chance X 53 Snap Reaction skill level).
That's 15 additional Morale hits to a CB a game, plus 15 Balance checks that CB has to make. To me, that's a huge improvement over the other SA choices I had for that type of WR build. Now a CB can mitigate the effect by having a higher Snap than the WRs, but CBs are already difficult to build and this adds another cost to them; hopefully creating a mismatch somewhere else that I can take advantage of.
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
To each his own, but to me it depends on your player's build, what you expect him to achieve and what the opposing build is like. I think those things are more important than just position. Since it's an SA, it competes with other SAs for a spot on your player build. Some positions have multiple SAs you want (for that player with that build for your specific strategy -- I think this is really key) and as such it can either be very high priority or very low.
For example, on LogZilla I've added it to my WRs. Typically, my WR1 and WR2 builds are Catch in Traffic types that don't go for Elusiveness/Sprinting, etc. I don't build them as burners because I'm ALWAYS targeting my TE as my primary receiver AND I don't use the Quick Read SA on my QB. I want my QB focused on my TE as long as possible since that's my Superstar. As such, the only SA that I've liked in the past is Gold Prime Time on them. First Strike is an excellent 2nd SA choice for them as my Snap Reaction cap is decent and I'm not building for Head Fake, Catch in Stride or First Step. If I'm running 80 Offensive plays a game, at Gold, I should get 15 First Strike fires (17% fire rate on a 35% chance X 53 Snap Reaction skill level).
That's 15 additional Morale hits to a CB a game, plus 15 Balance checks that CB has to make. To me, that's a huge improvement over the other SA choices I had for that type of WR build. Now a CB can mitigate the effect by having a higher Snap than the WRs, but CBs are already difficult to build and this adds another cost to them; hopefully creating a mismatch somewhere else that I can take advantage of.
Edited by Xars on Mar 25, 2021 04:45:23
Edited by Xars on Mar 25, 2021 04:37:10
Edited by Xars on Mar 25, 2021 04:35:08
Cybertron
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Originally posted by Raid
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
Nice...I was mainly talking about offense/defense line builds.
At some positions, I think it's stellar.
The closer to the line and the closer to the middle of the field you start the more value it has.
Nice...I was mainly talking about offense/defense line builds.
Cybertron
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The main action I like about First Strike is "Player's balance cannot be lowered". That should eliminate immediate reverse pancakes that allow a defender to get into the backfield right after the snap to blow up the play.
Cybertron
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Originally posted by Xars
For example, on LogZilla I've added it to my WRs. Typically, my WR1 and WR2 builds are Catch in Traffic types that don't go for Elusiveness/Sprinting, etc. I don't build them as burners because I'm ALWAYS targeting my TE as my primary receiver AND I don't use the Quick Read SA on my QB. I want my QB focused on my TE as long as possible since that's my Superstar. As such, the only SA that I've liked in the past is Gold Prime Time on them. First Strike is an excellent 2nd SA choice for them as my Snap Reaction cap is decent and I'm not building for Head Fake, Catch in Stride or First Step. If I'm running 80 Offensive plays a game, at Gold, I should get 15 First Strike fires (17% fire rate on a 35% chance X 53 Snap Reaction skill level).
That's 15 additional Morale hits to a CB a game, plus 15 Balance checks that CB has to make. To me, that's a huge improvement over the other SA choices I had for that type of WR build. Now a CB can mitigate the effect by having a higher Snap than the WRs, but CBs are already difficult to build and this adds another cost to them; hopefully creating a mismatch somewhere else that I can take advantage of.
Great analysis...and I agree with everything you just said.
For example, on LogZilla I've added it to my WRs. Typically, my WR1 and WR2 builds are Catch in Traffic types that don't go for Elusiveness/Sprinting, etc. I don't build them as burners because I'm ALWAYS targeting my TE as my primary receiver AND I don't use the Quick Read SA on my QB. I want my QB focused on my TE as long as possible since that's my Superstar. As such, the only SA that I've liked in the past is Gold Prime Time on them. First Strike is an excellent 2nd SA choice for them as my Snap Reaction cap is decent and I'm not building for Head Fake, Catch in Stride or First Step. If I'm running 80 Offensive plays a game, at Gold, I should get 15 First Strike fires (17% fire rate on a 35% chance X 53 Snap Reaction skill level).
That's 15 additional Morale hits to a CB a game, plus 15 Balance checks that CB has to make. To me, that's a huge improvement over the other SA choices I had for that type of WR build. Now a CB can mitigate the effect by having a higher Snap than the WRs, but CBs are already difficult to build and this adds another cost to them; hopefully creating a mismatch somewhere else that I can take advantage of.
Great analysis...and I agree with everything you just said.
vipermaw82
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Originally posted by Cybertron
Great analysis...and I agree with everything you just said.
Which means it’s wrong
Great analysis...and I agree with everything you just said.
Which means it’s wrong
Cybertron
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Originally posted by vipermaw82
Which means it’s wrong
Some of you soy boys are gonna be real pissed off when this old school, based baw takes home the trophy
Which means it’s wrong
Some of you soy boys are gonna be real pissed off when this old school, based baw takes home the trophy
darkwingaa
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I think First Strike is a niche SA. You can use it. It's not the worst but not a top tier SA.
I think it's best on WRs for the reasons outlined by Xars, but it's by no means necessary.
It's meh for OL and DL.
I'd argue DL have more important SAs to get unless you don't care about being balanced against the run and the pass.
The issue for OL is that DL tend to have respectable snap reaction too and better morale (revcakes happen much more than pancakes). As an OL you cannot consistently beat the DL on reaction time, and First Strike isn't that amazing without the morale and balance hit to the opponent.
The balance protection is nice against Tunnel Vision, but it only lasts 0.8 seconds. It's helpful when active, but your build cannot rely on it.
I think First Strike is worth trying on the OL of a 100% pass offense. You'd be able to get a high snap reaction since you don't need to worry about run blocking, and the First Strike morale and balance penalty can help against spin cycle/tunnel vision.
I think it's best on WRs for the reasons outlined by Xars, but it's by no means necessary.
It's meh for OL and DL.
I'd argue DL have more important SAs to get unless you don't care about being balanced against the run and the pass.
The issue for OL is that DL tend to have respectable snap reaction too and better morale (revcakes happen much more than pancakes). As an OL you cannot consistently beat the DL on reaction time, and First Strike isn't that amazing without the morale and balance hit to the opponent.
The balance protection is nice against Tunnel Vision, but it only lasts 0.8 seconds. It's helpful when active, but your build cannot rely on it.
I think First Strike is worth trying on the OL of a 100% pass offense. You'd be able to get a high snap reaction since you don't need to worry about run blocking, and the First Strike morale and balance penalty can help against spin cycle/tunnel vision.
Ghanima
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Pure catching TE can use First Strike. Just run only from diamond formation. Also TE always got some1 in this SA range.
darkwingaa
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Originally posted by Ghanima
Pure catching TE can use First Strike. Just run only from diamond formation. Also TE always got some1 in this SA range.
A DL will be the closest player out of a diamond formation, so the TE runs into the same issue as the OL. You won't be able to consistently get that morale and balance debuff.
Might as well go for First Step instead unless you really need that chance of a debuff.
Pure catching TE can use First Strike. Just run only from diamond formation. Also TE always got some1 in this SA range.
A DL will be the closest player out of a diamond formation, so the TE runs into the same issue as the OL. You won't be able to consistently get that morale and balance debuff.
Might as well go for First Step instead unless you really need that chance of a debuff.
Ghanima
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I know effect of First Strike is minor but TE is having his own battle vs his coverage player - at some point 1 of those players will lose morale battle and will start to lose badly on every roll. First step is just being a little bit faster. If U want to win coverage battle with just speed U need to be a lot faster. Morale battle is easier and faster to win. Thats why every1 invests into prime time on every receiver.
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