Warrior General Games

It seems like Power Running is basically useless below like, 70 or so. Once you get it to that point it seems like each point you increase that skill is fairly significant, but why does it do so close to nothing for so long? Like I know for a fact that Elusive Running is super useful even around 50, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a 100 Elusive Running skill, but 100 Power Running is practically the standard in this game because I'm guessing if you invest enough in Power Running to make it useful, it's not worth turning back at that point because it doesn't really become worth the investment unless you just max it out.

It scales like shit, yes.

It scales 100% linearly.

Power HBs feel weird this season. I am breaking more tackles, but my YACON is down. It feels like I break tackles but he just gets stuck so hard after that, it gives time for 3 more tacklers to show up

Originally posted by Shoota
Power HBs feel weird this season. I am breaking more tackles, but my YACON is down. It feels like I break tackles but he just gets stuck so hard after that, it gives time for 3 more tacklers to show up

Lot feels weird this season, blocking is way harder to accomplish for some reason and outside running is committing suicide if the team is even halfway decent. Guys who used to pick up blocks now run between defenders oblivious to the world around them, HBs are juking backward into the hands of slower DTs trailing them out of the backfield with open lanes in front of them, and yet nothing was mentioned in the changes that could have caused all this.

If adding shed sack breaks everything else, I'd rather not.

Originally posted by Shoota
Power HBs feel weird this season. I am breaking more tackles, but my YACON is down. It feels like I break tackles but he just gets stuck so hard after that, it gives time for 3 more tacklers to show up

Probably has something to do with carry style being a bit wonky. Power style is shit when running outside so most power backs have to go combo. Any style not power-oriented makes them way too indecisive whenever there are defenders around them and since they have to go ~100 power running and much higher carry grip they usually don't have the quickness/physicals to break thru. I don't remember when they started getting so indecisive, maybe when the footwork/balance changes were made.

It's definitely interesting because elusive running seems to scale much more effectively but the return on investment gets lower as the skill gets higher (at least imo) while power running is the complete opposite. I went power way too early on my sophomore back even knowing this because I thought gold power thru would make it worth it, it didn't, plus the risk of fumbles is way higher with power backs.

There's a reason why most of the s* HBs in vet are elusive/speed-based backs. Power HBs can't get the physicals to separate anymore... Hell, I watch 4.8 40 LBs chase down Otega's 4.26 40 HB every game and he's probably the best back in the game.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Probably has something to do with carry style being a bit wonky. Power style is shit when running outside so most power backs have to go combo. Any style not power-oriented makes them way too indecisive whenever there are defenders around them and since they have to go ~100 power running and much higher carry grip they usually don't have the quickness/physicals to break thru. I don't remember when they started getting so indecisive, maybe when the footwork/balance changes were made.

It's definitely interesting because elusive running seems to scale much more effectively but the return on investment gets lower as the skill gets higher (at least imo) while power running is the complete opposite. I went power way too early on my sophomore back even knowing this because I thought gold power thru would make it worth it, it didn't, plus the risk of fumbles is way higher with power backs.

There's a reason why most of the s* HBs in vet are elusive/speed-based backs. Power HBs can't get the physicals to separate anymore... Hell, I watch 4.8 40 LBs chase down Otega's 4.26 40 HB every game and he's probably the best back in the game.

Check out some of the RBs coming out of pro league this year. There is an impressive stable about to join the vet ranks next season

Originally posted by bluelightning1224
Check out some of the RBs coming out of pro league this year. There is an impressive stable about to join the vet ranks next season

I'm not sure they follow the pure power back mode so much as the combo "power with some wiggle" or "wiggle with some power" modes.

Originally posted by atlbruce
I'm not sure they follow the pure power back mode so much as the combo "power with some wiggle" or "wiggle with some power" modes.

Not sure what you mean by that?

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Probably has something to do with carry style being a bit wonky. Power style is shit when running outside so most power backs have to go combo. Any style not power-oriented makes them way too indecisive whenever there are defenders around them and since they have to go ~100 power running and much higher carry grip they usually don't have the quickness/physicals to break thru. I don't remember when they started getting so indecisive, maybe when the footwork/balance changes were made.

It's definitely interesting because elusive running seems to scale much more effectively but the return on investment gets lower as the skill gets higher (at least imo) while power running is the complete opposite. I went power way too early on my sophomore back even knowing this because I thought gold power thru would make it worth it, it didn't, plus the risk of fumbles is way higher with power backs.

There's a reason why most of the s* HBs in vet are elusive/speed-based backs. Power HBs can't get the physicals to separate anymore... Hell, I watch 4.8 40 LBs chase down Otega's 4.26 40 HB every game and he's probably the best back in the game.
this is kind of exactly what I was thinking. Elusive running seems incredibly effective at lower levels, and especially between the tackles, whereas power running seems completely useless (like literally, it barely even helps drag defenders) up until it hits 70+ at least, if not higher. But yeah, 90+ power running with the right supporting stats can make a RB really difficult to bring down. I mean good luck pulling that off without using up a S*, but yeah it works. It's just odd to me though that I could make a super viable 80+ sprinting RB with 50 elusive running, footwork, and quickness, whereas if I wanted to try and make a viable power RB it's basically a requirement to have 90+ power running and conditioning, and then I could get 80+ carrying grip and still fumble multiple times in every single game. It just seems asymmetrical. Like elusive RBs are all reward with basically no risk, while power RBs are great reward too but much more risk involved.

Originally posted by Kayoh

this is kind of exactly what I was thinking. Elusive running seems incredibly effective at lower levels, and especially between the tackles, whereas power running seems completely useless (like literally, it barely even helps drag defenders) up until it hits 70+ at least, if not higher. But yeah, 90+ power running with the right supporting stats can make a RB really difficult to bring down. I mean good luck pulling that off without using up a S*, but yeah it works. It's just odd to me though that I could make a super viable 80+ sprinting RB with 50 elusive running, footwork, and quickness, whereas if I wanted to try and make a viable power RB it's basically a requirement to have 90+ power running and conditioning, and then I could get 80+ carrying grip and still fumble multiple times in every single game. It just seems asymmetrical. Like elusive RBs are all reward with basically no risk, while power RBs are great reward too but much more risk involved.

Power backs are way way easier to build than elusive backs. and yes your giht powerbacks dont start being functional until 65+ power with 95+ cnd

powerbacks can be effective with 5 stats being focused where an elusive back needs to be more balanced. they are however better in the early tiers but less effective in the later tiers

Originally posted by ThePh33P
Power backs are way way easier to build than elusive backs. and yes your giht powerbacks dont start being functional until 65+ power with 95+ cnd

You can say that again, oh and in case anyone is wondering why their powerbacks aren't breaking tackles til they get power running that high, despite the skill scaling naturally, it's because tackling skills are cheap early on and have a decent 'value' even at low numbers. Also, balance and footwork seem to be something powerbacks don't spend enough in early to stay upright when they make a huge impact. I've had pickups breaking tackles from game 1 when I invested a decent amount in those 2 up front.

Originally posted by Corndog
It scales 100% linearly.

This is a perfect example of Corndog giving out 100% true information while it being 100% useless at the same time.

The issue isn't how Power Rushing scales.

The issue is how it scales against it's natural counter. And what happens once Power Rushing > it's counter.

Like everything in this game.

You can build 100 PR S* HBs. It's hard to build 90+ Power Tackling S* LBs and very hard to build non-S* LBs with PT above 80. It's not the SP cost. It's the caps that LBs have. They don't go high enough.

So it's more about how 115 PR (with +15 PR from Gold Star SA) compares to 80-90 PT values on LBs and not the linear value of PR itself.

Originally posted by Xars
This is a perfect example of Corndog giving out 100% true information while it being 100% useless at the same time.

The issue isn't how Power Rushing scales.

The issue is how it scales against it's natural counter. And what happens once Power Rushing > it's counter.

Like everything in this game.

You can build 100 PR S* HBs. It's hard to build 90+ Power Tackling S* LBs and very hard to build non-S* LBs with PT above 80. It's not the SP cost. It's the caps that LBs have. They don't go high enough.

So it's more about how 115 PR (with +15 PR from Gold Star SA) compares to 80-90 PT values on LBs and not the linear value of PR itself.


120 with power setting for the tactic

You know a cool tactic setting on players could be aggressive tackler vs conservative tackler +5 power tackle/Strip with - 10 technique. could do that with a ton of settings zone/man, pass rush/ run stuff

I have no idea what you're arguing Xars, but it's good to see you back.

Idk why we're throwing SAs into the mix but I guess to counter: Monster Hit gives +15 power tackling +morale/energy hit, Death Grip gives 100% bonus to tackling grip, and Brick Wall gives +12 power tackling and stops all momentum. It's not like there aren't SAs to stop power runners, there are a fuckload of really good ones.

Also, power backs aren't running on the Power rushing setting or even the North/South setting (so they aren't even getting that +power boost) because doing so compromises all outside running viability. It's the same with elusive runners - I'd argue that most elusives shouldn't be on elusive running because they run out of bounds too much.

As much as you want to think power tackling is a "natural counter" to power rushing, it will never be true. There are more attributes than just power tackling that help you counter power rushing, just as there are more attributes than just power running that help you break a tackle.

The discussion, though, was aimed toward early tier power rushing, which is pretty much nonexistent. It's decent for dragging a carrier a yard or two when PT fires, but not much more than that. Even in seasoned I have some guys on base tackling skills (with high pursuit) and they only struggle with elusives.

Side note: I'd be interested to see what a carry awareness boost and return awareness boost would look like on runners since both power carry style and elusive carry style seem to be sub-optimal.