Warrior General Games

I first want to state why I did this. I recently came back to GLB and am new to GLB2. I have been going through the superstar grind with my free practice player. I clicked on a "Top Plays This Week" link and followed the HB to their page. The build was open.

Here is the build:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/271133

I decided I would try to get as close to the build as possible with my free practice squad player.

Here is the build:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/282786

As you can see I am short the following:
Elusive Running -18
Power Running -20
Carrying Awareness -25
Quickness -5
Sprinting -10
Conditioning -18

I do not have Freight train at all.
I used the same build except instead of superstar I took natural. The test HB has 43 skill points remaining. The last two games played of season 31 day 22 have been post all points but above 43 being spent (complete build).

One of the stark differences I noticed is just how many fumbles the test HB had. He averaged about fumble a game. Just so people know I actually took carrying grip to 67 before the 10th game played. I also had Toughness, Heart and Intimidation to the same point as the Superstar before the end of the second season. I suspect that conditioning had something to do with it and the fact the test HB was on both kick and punt return duties. Still the fumble difference is rather stark.

I also noticed just how much the test HB sucked in yards per carry. Some of that has to be play calling. Most of the competition should have been against computer generated players. From what I can tell the superstar boosted player is far superior.
This test, along with other observations leads me to believe that superstar players are the crux of what is wrong with GLB2. At the core, the game will probably always be broken because of it.

I did some research into the 3 veteran leagues. I looked at all of the teams and counted up super star players at the following positions: OL, DT, DE, LB. I choose to only look at the vet leagues for time, but also because those are the players that people have spent the most time on. Here is the breakdown:
OL: 13
DT: 29
DE: 11
LB: 26

If we know that superstar players are inherently better and there is far more on the defensive front 7 then the oline, how can we expect a balanced sim? I am being serious. Even worse by far the most CPU players in the vet leagues is olineman. Also many teams owners seem to make a majority of their oline. If you look at the amount of times oline gets revcakced as opposed to pancaking the dline, it is insane.

To me this is the core of why the game is so impossible to balance. The superstar distribution is not even at all. The trenches have far more on defense and the skill position vs DBs is heavily favored towards the offense.

I don't know how you balance a sim around this. If you buff the online blocking to compensate then you make the really hurt teams who don't have a superstar or three on the dline. If you increase coverage to compensate then you really hurt teams who don't have multiple superstars at the skill positions on offense. I just don't know how anyone can expect a good balanced football sim with the wide variety of skill points players could have available. Football is game of player on player interactions. Having large disparity leads to some very odd results.

Thoughts, also I apologize for the length and if this has been brought up before.

Maybe.

Unfortunately, a balanced game isn't particularly enjoyable. You could just as easily say that being able to spend SP where you want them breaks the balance of the game because people can exploit it to make their players better than the competition.

Originally posted by Corndog
Maybe.

Unfortunately, a balanced game isn't particularly enjoyable. You could just as easily say that being able to spend SP where you want them breaks the balance of the game because people can exploit it to make their players better than the competition.

No offense but that is a complete misunderstanding of game design. A balanced game does not mean everyone is the same. A balanced game means the game can function within peramiters of building characters.

If all characters have the same resource pool then a bonus in one area leaves a deficiency in another. That trade off is what allows diversity inside of balance and far more intriguing game play. It allows for true min maxing because finding the sweet spot is harder.

Originally posted by czman
No offense but that is a complete misunderstanding of game design. A balanced game does not mean everyone is the same. A balanced game means the game can function within peramiters of building characters.

If all characters have the same resource pool then a bonus in one area leaves a deficiency in another. That trade off is what allows diversity inside of balance and far more intriguing game play. It allows for true min maxing because finding the sweet spot is harder.

But superstars aren't meant to be balanced with normal players, that's the entire point. Superstars allow teams to have a bonus in one area, and the opportunity cost creates a deficiency in another.

The favoritism of DL over OL probably comes from the fact that in previous seasons, the average score of a game was in the 40s or 50s. And I mean, people are going to generally prefer having better players in higher impact positions.

I think it is a bit misleading to look into the current vet leagues and deem that defensive line is more valuable than offensive line in terms of superstar ability.

For 1: The current sim leads it hard to use an all run based system and be highly successful. But that doesn't mean next season's sim will be of that same notion. The script changes pretty quick with just a few changes. Under a sim where an all run team is successful, an offensive line full of superstars is ideal.

For 2: I am currently unsure anyone has drawn together the most successful pass based offensive line yet. The drawback here is that it would cost your defensive superstar cap room but I believe there is a way you could have league leaders in pancakes, take on minimal rev cakes, and pass 90% of the time. That would take a superstar oline though. Due to the insanely bad results from my speed rushers due to the recent changes, I might shift my focus towards this in veteran tier when I get there.

Is the game broken? who knows really but all the Veteran users seem to be disappearing off the game frustrated for a reason...so maybe just maybe GLB should address certain issues instead of shruggin' them off...just sayin'

Originally posted by Team Nucleus
Is the game broken? who knows really but all the Veteran users seem to be disappearing off the game frustrated for a reason...so maybe just maybe GLB should address certain issues instead of shruggin' them off...just sayin'

Yeah, well, I either have to live with people getting bored with the lack of changes and leaving or getting frustrated with changes and leaving. It's impossible to make a change that makes every team better. Any significant change means someone is getting hosed.

Originally posted by Corndog
Yeah, well, I either have to live with people getting bored with the lack of changes and leaving or getting frustrated with changes and leaving. It's impossible to make a change that makes every team better. Any significant change means someone is getting hosed.

I can’t disagree with you because from what most people complain is if you don’t make changes they are made and if you make big ones some are mad. I get that. But there are times that a certain change may not result in even the way you hoped it would result.

I try not to cuss you because I get doing the coding and handling customers is difficult when your entire service is based on us. But on that there is a clear struggle in the game at the moment. Running has becoming largely more difficult and passing has got to a point that teams will all start to want to do one thing. Pass the ball on offense which means defenses will want star blitzers and pass rushing lineman. My pro team is a clear example right now. All pass offense is pumpingnon full cylinders and my defense is crushing because the skins is all stars focused at pass rushing so they fly pass the offense line

I know you are smart Corndog...an a-hole but smart. You can come up with something.

Originally posted by Corndog
Yeah, well, I either have to live with people getting bored with the lack of changes and leaving or getting frustrated with changes and leaving. It's impossible to make a change that makes every team better. Any significant change means someone is getting hosed.

The problem with the changes isn't that they're making certain teams better or worse(to be expected), it's that some of them are functionally breaking the sim itself. Which is a pretty drastic change since GLB2's sim was pretty damn good not too long ago. The balance change in particular was a nice idea, but caused unintended consequences that literally made players fall over untouched, or stumble around. Some of the fixes for balance have increasingly caused more and more of the sim to falter. Right now nearly every game is lopsided, even between two good teams. Hardly any offensive plays actually work anymore. Screens have been dead for a while, but nearly all pass/run plays are ineffective now, even with S* power and rosters built towards that meta. HB builds with high spr/quick were blazing fast in the old sim. QBs with high accuracy were actually...accurate not too long ago. A powerback could actually run inside. None of that happens consistently now, and that causes agents to get frustrated.

I like the sim right now for the most part. I don't like that screens are no longer an option even against defenses they should be. Also is there any reason to ever tag a play as long now?

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Right now nearly every game is lopsided, even between two good teams.

Just a suggestion as to why teams of similar ability still produce lopsided games: In trying to catch up to what I missed in numerous seasons away, I saw in the changelog that the morale "gravitation" (meaning I think toward 50, though I guess at the very start it was toward 100) was greatly slowed.

If you have large morale changes based on team accomplishments or blunders, and don't have them revert to the average fast enough, then in an evenly matched game a team that comes out strong may dominate the game, even though the builds, coaching, etc., are fairly balanced.

I actually wouldn't say it has to revert much faster again, as before that change. Depending on how slow the gravitation was made, it may have to be slightly faster. There is the other option, of making morale have almost nothing to do with team performance but almost all individual performance/heart and effects of SA's and QB leadership, so while the team might be doing badly a player that's individually doing his job well can still have good morale, maybe leading a comeback.

What makes the game exciting are 28-23 games that are in doubt till the end (a 7-0 game may be in doubt till the end, but is still very boring, and a 49-42 game isn't quite as boring but definitely not as much fun as when some possessions are scores and some aren't). I saw the lopsided scores and assumed mismatches, but if those are well matched teams that's an issue, and I'd guess it's with the morale mechanic; and the large number of 7-0 type games is definitely a problem as well, even if the problem used to be the other extreme.

I love that defense got a boost, I'm a defense guy...

So it pains me verily to say this, but at the moment its a bit too strong. I think if it was dialed back just a hair, enough that some of the offensive plays functioned a little better with slight better rushing and maybe a cock hair on passing (at least my team seems to need both) the sim would be near perfect IMO. I like that we see TO's now and that morale and balance and such things matter, but it seems they are at very high levels atm.

And if you want to fix player frustration, allow our respecs to be full respecs and not to just the past tier. I can't test how good the sim is if I'm stuck with damage done to my build from 3 tiers ago before all the changes. I had my team not spend any points until season started and then burned respecs that turned out to be a waste.

And I'm in the same camp as Dredgar, C-Dog...I don't cuss at you either, I know its a thankless job and you do try to keep the game interesting and fun for us. Hell, I've seen you all use many of our suggestions to improve the game... not many games have Devs that listen to their customer base like you all.

From a new player perspective, I like that there is activity and dynamic changes that keep things fresh. It can be a little hard to keep up with trying to adjust, but is preferable to stagnation.

I think of game balance in terms of hard and soft counters and weighing strengths and weaknesses. It seems like balance between offense, in terms of running and passing, and defensively how you counter those is maybe a little skewed.

There are certain offensive plays that seem like they should work against a pretty bad defensive call and will still get blown up most of the time. This seems to be partly due to defense getting a needed boost.

Then there are some other offensive plays that seem to be much harder to cover even with the right defense called. Some of the counters don't seem quite effective enough.

This balancing act cannot be easy, so I appreciate that it's actively being looked at and worked on! People complain about people leaving, which is a bummer, but more people would leave if nothing ever changed or appeared to be working towards improvement.

Originally posted by Corndog
Yeah, well, I either have to live with people getting bored with the lack of changes and leaving or getting frustrated with changes and leaving. It's impossible to make a change that makes every team better. Any significant change means someone is getting hosed.

Fair enough, I can't argue with that...Perhaps a line of communcation with the userbase that fund this game the most, would help meet some needs/issues being discussed on occasion.