Warrior General Games

Last season, Whoville did a mostly CPU roster (CPU challenge style). We went 9-1 in the league to sole possession of first place, then proceeded to lose 3 of the last 4 games and finish 10-4 and just miss the playoffs. That said, we started to lose ladder matches a bit earlier as our late middle season schedule was a little easy. We really started to lose right in the middle of the season.

It seems to me that is pretty clear evidence of when the sim starts to "work," i.e, when players have enough SP for builds to do anything in the sim.

Why make the first half of rookie such a throw away experience? Half the games for the season are almost entirely determined by RNG, assuming competent coordinators. Especially bad considering that will be any new player's first experience with the game.

A lot of people have suggested eliminating rookie and having another season of vet instead, but I don't think that is ever going to happen. However, if you front loaded a bit more SP from player development into the start of rookie, that would essentially accomplish the same thing without all the difficulty of rebuilding the entire game. It would make rookie more enjoyable, so people would appreciate the tier more, and if you took the SP from pro, it would make that tier closer to vet and sort of give people that additional vet season.

Going back to Whoville's experience last season, it took about 13,000 SP before we started to fall away. So why not start brand new players with about that much additional SP, so you can go into game 1 resembling something of a build? And take that SP out of Pro to compensate.

Completely agree. Dropping one tier would probably best, but just even adopting a GLB1 style of SP system where you're given more early and less later would help. Not easy for the devs though, since it requires reworking the SP for both new and current players. But worth if possible.

Yes please. I don't want to go through early lol rookie next season. +1

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Completely agree. Dropping one tier would probably best, but just even adopting a GLB1 style of SP system where you're given more early and less later would help. Not easy for the devs though, since it requires reworking the SP for both new and current players. But worth if possible.

I would think it actually wouldn't be that hard, especially if they took all the SP from Pro. You just give every existing non vet player the front loaded SP to spend, and adjust the pro tier to give that many SP less.

If they spread it out among the tiers, then it is a little more complex, but still not hard.

Another alternative is to take the SP from game experience instead of the level stars. There are 5 tiers of experience giving games and 30 games a tier for 150 games total where you get 750 SP every time. That is 112,500 SP. If you reduced that to 650 SP a game, that is 15k SP you could front load right there.

Dropping game SP to 650 is a really good approach, and yes would give 15k to rookies.

I don't see how giving older players an even bigger advantage over newer owners right out of the door is a good thing.

Yeah Corndog, don't listen to your customers. Good strategy.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
Yeah Corndog, don't listen to your customers. Good strategy.

Exactly, implement every suggestion.

Originally posted by Corndog
I don't see how giving older players an even bigger advantage over newer owners right out of the door is a good thing.

There is certainly some validity to this. How many owners (new especially) do not even use the forums? This is certainly to their own detriment but it is going to exist. Those that take their time exploring the game before diving in to the forums can potentially recover a bit but chances are that their initial builds may not be viable for the long run as is. Additionally, early and cheap spending of SP is kind of exciting since you get to add more than a single point somewhere every 2-3+ days (obviously depends on the cost of the skill). Rookie probably should be its own entity and maybe gain a slight buff to their abilities the first season. Not so much as to see a decline in all numbers once they hit Soph ball though. I am not sure what the best answer to crummy rookie ball is...

Originally posted by Corndog
Exactly, implement every suggestion.

Oh, better yet! Don't just ignore your customers, troll them! Brilliant.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
but chances are that their initial builds may not be viable for the long run as is

Bingo. Giving more or less SP to start isn't going to fix or break a build. The build is set when you roll the dot. And no one is hitting very many caps with only 13k additional SP to start, so builds aren't even going to have much of an impact in rookie ball.

And front loading SP would teach them the flaws in their initial builds sooner, so they could become competitive quicker. But why would we want new players to become competitive quicker when we can have them struggle for as long as it takes them to quit?

I'd rather front load AP's than change anything to SP's or removing an entire tier. That way you can grow into your build and the SP's you are pouring into a skill actually show on the field quicker.



If there ever was a tier to remove it's journeyman because it's a ladder nightmare that tends to be the point in which most teams playing all the pro and vet teams just say fuck it and reset.

I don't see any of it happening tho because that would be a ridiculously huge change in the game that would need to be worked out.

Just give me new plays.

Originally posted by Corndog
I don't see how giving older players an even bigger advantage over newer owners right out of the door is a good thing.

If you frontloaded the initial SP for a build, you would improve the quality of play in lower tiers, and make the gap between older players smaller.

Total SP for regular player + boosts = 210000

Current Rookie + boosts = 5000 SP
Frontloaded Rookie + boosts = 23500 SP (lvl 3 equivalent)

Drop game SP by 150, and it works out. Not sure if that's the direction you and Bort are looking to go though, or how easy it would be to implement.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
If you frontloaded the initial SP for a build, you would improve the quality of play in lower tiers, and make the gap between older players smaller.

Total SP for regular player + boosts = 210000

Current Rookie + boosts = 5000 SP
Frontloaded Rookie + boosts = 23500 SP (lvl 3 equivalent)

Drop game SP by 150, and it works out. Not sure if that's the direction you and Bort are looking to go though, or how easy it would be to implement.

How does that make the gap smaller? The older agents have the knowledge still to use the space wiser.

Or if you mean between older and younger players themselves, rookie is a class/tier of its own so they don't need to have the gap closed from them to other tiers.

Add "redshirt freshman" leagues with players with front loaded SP who then go on to be sophomores as normal at the end of the season... Let the thumbs downs begin right about...... now!