I know the traditional belief is that S* DTs are a waste, but if I was going to make one anyway, how much footwork, BRB, and pursuit should he get?
Would 45-50 be enough FW? 85-90 BRB? 50 pursuit?
Would 45-50 be enough FW? 85-90 BRB? 50 pursuit?
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Cuivienen
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I'm not sure that is the traditional belief.
Not nearly enough footwork imo. Would want something in the 80s or more.
That is probably more than enough BRB and pursuit.
Not nearly enough footwork imo. Would want something in the 80s or more.
That is probably more than enough BRB and pursuit.
Oofty
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
Not nearly enough footwork imo. Would want something in the 80s or more.
Not that I doubt your reasoning, but why? Wouldn't a high enough Hold Ground, combined with BRB, mean that forcing lateral movement would be easy enough as is? It seems awfully expensive.
Not nearly enough footwork imo. Would want something in the 80s or more.
Not that I doubt your reasoning, but why? Wouldn't a high enough Hold Ground, combined with BRB, mean that forcing lateral movement would be easy enough as is? It seems awfully expensive.
MileHighShoes
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Nobody really thinks they are a waste, because they are so cheap.
You really want to maximize BRB and PRT though, and have at least 50 speed so that they can really have a big presence in the game.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1466535417.png
Hold Ground and PRP do a lot less than you think they do, and leaving strength at 1 allows you to get caps high enough to theoretically hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DT, and to easily hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DE. Those two attributes are the most important to everything your player does, and should be prioritized over everything else.
You really want to maximize BRB and PRT though, and have at least 50 speed so that they can really have a big presence in the game.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1466535417.png
Hold Ground and PRP do a lot less than you think they do, and leaving strength at 1 allows you to get caps high enough to theoretically hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DT, and to easily hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DE. Those two attributes are the most important to everything your player does, and should be prioritized over everything else.
Oofty
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Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Nobody really thinks they are a waste, because they are so cheap.
You really want to maximize BRB and PRT though, and have at least 50 speed so that they can really have a big presence in the game.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1466535417.png
Hold Ground and PRP do a lot less than you think they do, and leaving strength at 1 allows you to get caps high enough to theoretically hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DT, and to easily hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DE. Those two attributes are the most important to everything your player does, and should be prioritized over everything else.
Only 66 conditioning though?
And won't he miss a ton of tackles? I have DTs with high balance, almost that high tackle technique, and higher conditioning that miss 20-30% of their tackles. Seems sort of a one-sided build to me.
Nobody really thinks they are a waste, because they are so cheap.
You really want to maximize BRB and PRT though, and have at least 50 speed so that they can really have a big presence in the game.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1466535417.png
Hold Ground and PRP do a lot less than you think they do, and leaving strength at 1 allows you to get caps high enough to theoretically hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DT, and to easily hit 100 PRT and 100 BRB on a DE. Those two attributes are the most important to everything your player does, and should be prioritized over everything else.
Only 66 conditioning though?
And won't he miss a ton of tackles? I have DTs with high balance, almost that high tackle technique, and higher conditioning that miss 20-30% of their tackles. Seems sort of a one-sided build to me.
Edited by Oofty on Jun 21, 2016 13:37:48
Cuivienen
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Originally posted by Oofty
Not that I doubt your reasoning, but why? Wouldn't a high enough Hold Ground, combined with BRB, mean that forcing lateral movement would be easy enough as is? It seems awfully expensive.
No, it doesn't mean that. You can break a block, and if you don't get around the blocker quickly enough, the blocker re-engages you. That is what people are referring to when they say blockers have magnets or vacuums on them.
So, with low footwork, you are going to break some blocks, but that broken block is just going to lead to another blocking interaction with the exact same blocker. The only exception to that is going to be pancakes, so you could theoretically go with zero footwork and just try to pancake everyone, but that's not a great strategy imo as it's only going to be a handful of plays a game that your DT gets a pancake and can do anything more than consume a blocker.
The other exception is if your DT breaks a block at the exact same time the ball carrier is running right by him. Then he will go for the tackle instead of get sucked back into a block. But that is even rarer than getting a pancake, as the play call would have to send the ball carrier past your DT (in an outside run meta no less) and the timing would have to be perfect.
So yeah, just go with high footwork if you want your DT to do more than consume a blocker (which, with a S*, I would think you do). It is expensive, but it's worth it.
Not that I doubt your reasoning, but why? Wouldn't a high enough Hold Ground, combined with BRB, mean that forcing lateral movement would be easy enough as is? It seems awfully expensive.
No, it doesn't mean that. You can break a block, and if you don't get around the blocker quickly enough, the blocker re-engages you. That is what people are referring to when they say blockers have magnets or vacuums on them.
So, with low footwork, you are going to break some blocks, but that broken block is just going to lead to another blocking interaction with the exact same blocker. The only exception to that is going to be pancakes, so you could theoretically go with zero footwork and just try to pancake everyone, but that's not a great strategy imo as it's only going to be a handful of plays a game that your DT gets a pancake and can do anything more than consume a blocker.
The other exception is if your DT breaks a block at the exact same time the ball carrier is running right by him. Then he will go for the tackle instead of get sucked back into a block. But that is even rarer than getting a pancake, as the play call would have to send the ball carrier past your DT (in an outside run meta no less) and the timing would have to be perfect.
So yeah, just go with high footwork if you want your DT to do more than consume a blocker (which, with a S*, I would think you do). It is expensive, but it's worth it.
Cuivienen
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fwiw, my regular DT has:
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
Oofty
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
fwiw, my regular DT has:
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
But he misses 40% of his tackles. It doesn't seem like 20 hurries over 25 games in vet is enough to sell the farm for either. And he doesn't get in on as many tackle opportunities as I'd like either.
Just my opinion.
fwiw, my regular DT has:
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
But he misses 40% of his tackles. It doesn't seem like 20 hurries over 25 games in vet is enough to sell the farm for either. And he doesn't get in on as many tackle opportunities as I'd like either.
Just my opinion.
Edited by Oofty on Jun 21, 2016 13:54:10
Galactic Empire
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Originally posted by Oofty
I know the traditional belief is that S* DTs are a waste,
Run Stuffers have 2 of them....they are most certainly not a waste.
I know the traditional belief is that S* DTs are a waste,
Run Stuffers have 2 of them....they are most certainly not a waste.
Cuivienen
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Originally posted by Oofty
But he misses 40% of his tackles. It doesn't seem like 20 hurries over 25 games in vet is enough to sell the farm for either. And he doesn't get in on as many tackle opportunities as I'd like either.
Just my opinion.
Don't look at this season. He has been riding the bench. Look at last season when he got snaps and was the top regular DT in the tier on the HoF charts, and better than most of the S* DTs.
86 hurries and 13.5 sacks. 89 revcakes:43 caked. 47 total tackles:9 missed.
Not too bad. Also, not much a DT can do about getting in on more tackle opportunities. That is largely a function of opposition play calling.
But he misses 40% of his tackles. It doesn't seem like 20 hurries over 25 games in vet is enough to sell the farm for either. And he doesn't get in on as many tackle opportunities as I'd like either.
Just my opinion.
Don't look at this season. He has been riding the bench. Look at last season when he got snaps and was the top regular DT in the tier on the HoF charts, and better than most of the S* DTs.
86 hurries and 13.5 sacks. 89 revcakes:43 caked. 47 total tackles:9 missed.
Not too bad. Also, not much a DT can do about getting in on more tackle opportunities. That is largely a function of opposition play calling.
Oofty
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Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Run Stuffers have 2 of them....they are most certainly not a waste.
Ah. Well. Perhaps this was outdated. I just remember a post last year at this time saying S* should be DE, LB, SS, or maybe CB, and that everything else was meh.
Run Stuffers have 2 of them....they are most certainly not a waste.
Ah. Well. Perhaps this was outdated. I just remember a post last year at this time saying S* should be DE, LB, SS, or maybe CB, and that everything else was meh.
I'll throw my guy into the conversation...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/177460
100 PRtech, 80 BRB, 94 Ftwk, 75 Speed = A hurry machine!
I definitely wish I would have sacrificed speed for better tackling and def consistency...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/177460
100 PRtech, 80 BRB, 94 Ftwk, 75 Speed = A hurry machine!
I definitely wish I would have sacrificed speed for better tackling and def consistency...
Edited by DeeVee8 on Jun 21, 2016 14:23:11
Galactic Empire
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
fwiw, my regular DT has:
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
Speed?
fwiw, my regular DT has:
PRT 91
BRB 78
Ftw 77
Con 72
SnR 92
If you can't beat all of those numbers with a S*, just copy my build and save the salary and 50 FP S* slot.
Speed?
Oofty
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
Don't look at this season. He has been riding the bench. Look at last season when he got snaps and was the top regular DT in the tier on the HoF charts, and better than most of the S* DTs.
86 hurries and 13.5 sacks. 89 revcakes:43 caked. 47 total tackles:9 missed.
That's fair. Just noticed def plays this season are down. Didn't notice before.
But that includes does include assists and not many TFLs. TFLs are what make showboat valuable, and you can't get many without decent enough HG to get in backfield and enough Power Tackling to keep RB there. No coincidence that there's a strong correlation between Sticks and TFLs.
Originally posted by Cuivienen
Not too bad. Also, not much a DT can do about getting in on more tackle opportunities. That is largely a function of opposition play calling.
This is where I think we disagree, at least on extent. With almost all of my builds, it seems like power plays a big role in creating those opportunities--even if fewer rolls are won, the wins are much bigger and losses are much smaller in fighting for position.
Don't look at this season. He has been riding the bench. Look at last season when he got snaps and was the top regular DT in the tier on the HoF charts, and better than most of the S* DTs.
86 hurries and 13.5 sacks. 89 revcakes:43 caked. 47 total tackles:9 missed.
That's fair. Just noticed def plays this season are down. Didn't notice before.
But that includes does include assists and not many TFLs. TFLs are what make showboat valuable, and you can't get many without decent enough HG to get in backfield and enough Power Tackling to keep RB there. No coincidence that there's a strong correlation between Sticks and TFLs.
Originally posted by Cuivienen
Not too bad. Also, not much a DT can do about getting in on more tackle opportunities. That is largely a function of opposition play calling.
This is where I think we disagree, at least on extent. With almost all of my builds, it seems like power plays a big role in creating those opportunities--even if fewer rolls are won, the wins are much bigger and losses are much smaller in fighting for position.
MileHighShoes
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Originally posted by Oofty
Only 66 conditioning though?
And won't he miss a ton of tackles? I have DTs with high balance, almost that high tackle technique, and higher conditioning that miss 20-30% of their tackles. Seems sort of a one-sided build to me.
Balance doesnt have a very high affect on the tackle roll, if it has any affect at all.
66 Conditioning was as much as I could afford, it should be sufficient, not ideal, but I'd rather have that and 100 prt with 99 brb, then have 97 prt and 71 conditioning.
As far as missed tackles, go it's important to pump tackling skills, but not at the expense of block breaking skills. I'd rather have a guy who gets to the ball carrier as often as possible but misses more tackles, then a guy who can't always get to the ball carrier but misses less when he gets there. Even just the interaction of missing a tackle and possibly being dragged slows the ball carrier down, as compared to a DT who is still trying to break the original block and doesn't get to interact with the ball carrier at all.
Only 66 conditioning though?
And won't he miss a ton of tackles? I have DTs with high balance, almost that high tackle technique, and higher conditioning that miss 20-30% of their tackles. Seems sort of a one-sided build to me.
Balance doesnt have a very high affect on the tackle roll, if it has any affect at all.
66 Conditioning was as much as I could afford, it should be sufficient, not ideal, but I'd rather have that and 100 prt with 99 brb, then have 97 prt and 71 conditioning.
As far as missed tackles, go it's important to pump tackling skills, but not at the expense of block breaking skills. I'd rather have a guy who gets to the ball carrier as often as possible but misses more tackles, then a guy who can't always get to the ball carrier but misses less when he gets there. Even just the interaction of missing a tackle and possibly being dragged slows the ball carrier down, as compared to a DT who is still trying to break the original block and doesn't get to interact with the ball carrier at all.
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