Warrior General Games

#1 Stunners vs #4 Salty
The premier matchup of the week. We know that Salty can at least slow down the Stunners attack, but can they score? I'm guessing no. Stunners win by 20

#2 Air Raid vs #22 Jersey Goons
Air Raid dips as low as they can go. Jersey is no slouch, but they stand no chance in this game. Air Raid by 30.

#3 Hburg vs #8 New York Nightmare
Nightmare is under .500 and still in the top 10. They put up 50 against AA, but I don't see them hanging with Harry. Hburg by 21

#5 Ronin vs #22 DRZ
Ronin gets a bye week. Ronin by 35

#6 MMA vs #15 Dookie Island
Dookie is 5-12 and not worthy of a top 15 spot. MMA by 40.

#7 Stark vs #27 Portland Storm
The 20 rank difference is deceiving. Portland is legit and Stark is ranked too high. This should be one of the better games of the week and I'm taking Portland by 10.

#9 Legacy vs #18 GVP
Combined record of 15-19...doesn't really matter.

#10 RIF vs #24 Blitzed Potato Farmers
Farmers are 6-11. RIF by 40.

The top 30 is a joke, and these matchups are a joke.

Why you keep saying that after every ladder draw? I mean its like that for seasons and its annoying hearing the same thing over and over. jesus...concentrate on the good things.

love.peace.happyness


That said...Fuck off DD. Dont want you here!

Originally posted by peeti
Why you keep saying that after every ladder draw? I mean its like that for seasons and its annoying hearing the same thing over and over. jesus...concentrate on the good things.

love.peace.happyness


That said...Fuck off DD. Dont want you here!

Love, peace and happyness can't make these games watchable.

Been waiting for this match.

I'll run through hell on a pile of wood with gasoline drawers
Just so I can stop in front of the Devil and tell him that- "God is good".

Originally posted by Rob.
The top 30 is a joke, and these matchups are a joke.

League disparity is playing a major role in this, imo. In terms of ranking, Tiger >>> Monroe >> Helium > Hydrogen.

I'll use Legacy and AA as examples.

Legacy 4-5 in league play. Our losses have come against teams rated 7, 5, 2, 8, and 12. We aren't losing much from those losses. The average ranking of our league opponents is 13.44.

AA, on the other hand has won out in league play but has only played 1 team with a higher ranking than them. Their wins aren't earning them much. The average ranking of AA's league opponents is 30.33.

This disparity is allowing teams like Legacy to hover in the top 10 (actually, we've moved up from 12 despite a 6-11 record) while teams like AA are struggling to break the top 15.

Does Legacy belong in the top 10? Nope. Do we belong in the top 20? I think so.
Does AA deserve to be in the top 10? Yep. The league they're in is hurting them, though.

Originally posted by AirMcMVP
League disparity is playing a major role in this, imo. In terms of ranking, Tiger >>> Monroe >> Helium > Hydrogen.

I'll use Legacy and AA as examples.

Legacy 4-5 in league play. Our losses have come against teams rated 7, 5, 2, 8, and 12. We aren't losing much from those losses. The average ranking of our league opponents is 13.44.

AA, on the other hand has won out in league play but has only played 1 team with a higher ranking than them. Their wins aren't earning them much. The average ranking of AA's league opponents is 30.33.

This disparity is allowing teams like Legacy to hover in the top 10 (actually, we've moved up from 12 despite a 6-11 record) while teams like AA are struggling to break the top 15.

Does Legacy belong in the top 10? Nope. Do we belong in the top 20? I think so.
Does AA deserve to be in the top 10? Yep. The league they're in is hurting them, though.

The problem is that Helium/Hydrogen is just as good as those leagues you mentioned but are stuck with a low ranking because how bad the ladder ELO is from past wins. Thats why you get teams like Legacy, New York Nightmare, etc, etc that stay where they are.

To break it down more I'll use Tiger as an example since they are the highest ranked league, but shouldn't be. Here are the top 6 teams in Tiger and their ladder record.


#2 Air Raid - 3-5 (Only 1 win over a team with a .500 record or better)
#14 Queen City - 5-3
#4 The Salty Runback - 4-4 (1 win over a team with a .500 record or better)
#8 New York Nightmare - 3-5 (1 win over a team with a .500 record or better)
#5 Portland Ronin - 4-4
#7 Stark - 4-4 (1 win over a team with a .500 record or better)

This sounds like I'm slamming Tiger League but I'm not. This is a problem with the Ladder in general and with all these teams playing each other no one is going ot move down very much.

Side note: Queen City is actually #12

#12, #13 and #14 are all tied at the moment in the ladder.

Yes - leagues stacked with higher ladder rankings creates a "rich get richer" scenario.

Meanwhile the poor stay poorer (AA as an example).


Hard to say without knowing the formula...or ELO...but they could:

- TRIPLE the effect of ladder games on ELO and ladder rank
- halve the effect of league games on ELO and ladder rank

and things would sort out better and faster.

If we use Stobie's Power Ranker to compare average rank, which seems to be more dynamic with its ranking formula:

Hydrogen: 24
Helium: 22.21
Monroe: 19.43
Tiger: 18.36

Monroe has a case to be as good as Tiger, but Hydrogen and Helium definitely do not.

Even just looking at median rank, you can see why Tiger stands:

Helium: 30
Hydrogen: 27.5
Monroe: 24.5
Tiger: 16.5

Originally posted by TxSteve

- TRIPLE the effect of ladder games on ELO and ladder rank
- halve the effect of league games on ELO and ladder rank


wat, how would that produce a better ranking?

omg Air Raid is #1.

Sometimes I don't even see games effecting the ladder, for example Seasoned Baltimore Giants upsetting Hub City yesterday. Hub City made no drop staying at #3 and Baltimore made up little ground jumping from #16 to #15. Makes pulling off an upset a little disappointing in the aftermath.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
If we use Stobie's Power Ranker to compare average rank, which seems to be more dynamic with its ranking formula:

Hydrogen: 24
Helium: 22.21
Monroe: 19.43
Tiger: 18.36

Monroe has a case to be as good as Tiger, but Hydrogen and Helium definitely do not.

Even just looking at median rank, you can see why Tiger stands:

Helium: 30
Hydrogen: 27.5
Monroe: 24.5
Tiger: 16.5

Still heavily influenced by current ladder rank. Tiger is severely overrated, QC is the only potential top 5 team there and that isn't even a lock.

because the current ladder sucks -- and the reason it sucks is because teams don't drift as quickly as they should -- or rise as quickly as they should -- because their ELO is inflated/limited by their league opponents.

in your league - you've got:

Dookie @ 15 (too high)
santa clara @ 25 (too high)
NY @ 8 (too high by a lot)
MOD @ 12 (too high)
stark @ 7 (too high)
legacy @ 9 (too high)

So you got "lucky" in terms of the league you dropped in. You get lots of easy for the taking ELO from beating the crappy teams - and you don't lose as much ELO as you should be losing to teams (lol dookie)

So compared to someone like Alaska Assassins - your league is much safer - has more high ranked cupcakes - and has less punishment for losing - than they do.


At the top of the ladder - we are all going to essentially play mostly the same teams in ladder.
But you - being in Tiger with so many inflated ladder rankings - the playing field is not level.

It would appear that the ELO system is one in which - Tiger is over rated ladder rank wise because of several teams -- and that over-rated-ness promotes continued over-rated-ness in the future as well.