Warrior General Games

Here's the perfect example of why you cannot do zone defenses.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/94110/3043782

Should run Cover 3 you say? Sure. You try that with 4 underneath zone defenders.

It just doesn't make a bit of difference, and you're still looking at 1 on 1 coverage deep, which pretty much any pass-heavy offense will thank you for.

Any CB or LB that's taken any zone awareness has simply wasted skill points. Anybody with Eye's on the Prize SA, also wasted SA points.

You'll get the illusion that this might work OK for the first half of rookie or so. Passing teams can't catch or throw passes then though. They're mostly beating themselves when your zone "looks good". You'll start getting chewed up in the second half of rookie and into sophomore. Adding more SPs to get faster and improve coverage skills doesn't change much. WRs get better and QBs throw harder, meaning the potentially "smaller" windows isn't really a thing.

I do not recommend teams bother with zone defenses. You can do safety shells over your M2M guys. That's it though. I say this while probably having the most "zone ready" built defense in Journeyman. We've been blasted all season, even by mediocre offenses. Just don't do it.

I always agreed...but the Doge All Go

Originally posted by peeti
I always agreed...but the Doge All Go

They just engage 8 every play lol.

I disagree on the lb part, the cover 2s with a lb in a hook zone is amazing for dealing with pesky over the middle passing plays.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
I disagree on the lb part, the cover 2s with a lb in a hook zone is amazing for dealing with pesky over the middle passing plays.

Yeah, that is a nice defensive play, it's worth having a LB with some zone to make that work I think.

Originally posted by Danthesportsman
Yeah, that is a nice defensive play, it's worth having a LB with some zone to make that work I think.

Do you really need it though? The presence of the MLB alone tends to cause the QB to throw elsewhere in combination with the M2M defender on the TE. That defense doesn't hurt a passing team because the MLB is deflecting passes to the TE, it hurts because it's causing the QB to go to WR1 or WR2 instead of the more desireable TE. If the TE does get targetted, it's 90% because the protection was fantastic, and the TE has gotten deep enough beyond the MLB that he wouldn't be a factor in the coverage anyhow, even with awesome zone awareness.

Originally posted by Galithor
Do you really need it though? The presence of the MLB alone tends to cause the QB to throw elsewhere in combination with the M2M defender on the TE. That defense doesn't hurt a passing team because the MLB is deflecting passes to the TE, it hurts because it's causing the QB to go to WR1 or WR2 instead of the more desireable TE. If the TE does get targetted, it's 90% because the protection was fantastic, and the TE has gotten deep enough beyond the MLB that he wouldn't be a factor in the coverage anyhow, even with awesome zone awareness.

I run it for the exact reason of forcing teams to pass away from the TE. TE's usually have better hands and cit than the wrs and usually are covered by a lb who's no where near as good at disrupting a catch as the cb is.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
I run it for the exact reason of forcing teams to pass away from the TE. TE's usually have better hands and cit than the wrs and usually are covered by a lb who's no where near as good at disrupting a catch as the cb is.

My point is, I don't think they need to actually have any zone awareness to cause the QB to target elsewhere. Just by standing there in the middle of the field, the QB looks to the outside at a higher frequency. Heck, just getting deflect and some cov tech is probably enough for the LB to stick their hands in the air and do a good enough job of defending those routes. They drop back into perfect position in the middle of that zone generally.

I will be running %100 zone defense and it will be one of the best around...mark it down. It will be built in an unusual way which you will understand once you see it in action. Let's just say, any offense that plays against the Imperial Forces better tighten up that chin strap and have a ton of heart. Vader, Jabba and the Stormtroopers will be laying the wood.

Originally posted by Galithor
My point is, I don't think they need to actually have any zone awareness to cause the QB to target elsewhere. Just by standing there in the middle of the field, the QB looks to the outside at a higher frequency. Heck, just getting deflect and some cov tech is probably enough for the LB to stick their hands in the air and do a good enough job of defending those routes. They drop back into perfect position in the middle of that zone generally.

You have a good point about whether having any zone awareness skill actually impacts the pass-stopping effect of the play. I'm pretty sure though that having zone awareness does cause a defender to react to the run faster, so if you are calling plays that put your LBs in zone in the middle of the field and the other team happens to call a run, I'd want those LBs to have some zone awareness so they react quickly.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I will be running %100 zone defense and it will be one of the best around...mark it down. It will be built in an unusual way which you will understand once you see it in action. Let's just say, any offense that plays against the Imperial Forces better tighten up that chin strap and have a ton of heart. Vader, Jabba and the Stormtroopers will be laying the wood.

God speed to you sir.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I will be running %100 zone defense and it will be one of the best around...mark it down. It will be built in an unusual way which you will understand once you see it in action. Let's just say, any offense that plays against the Imperial Forces better tighten up that chin strap and have a ton of heart. Vader, Jabba and the Stormtroopers will be laying the wood.

Good Luck. If you're sticking with it after sophomore season, I'll give you a .

The hard hitting zone thing's been attempted before. Everyone trying it that I know of gave up fairly early on.

Originally posted by Galithor
Good Luck. If you're sticking with it after sophomore season, I'll give you a .

The hard hitting zone thing's been attempted before. Everyone trying it that I know of gave up fairly early on.

I won't give away my secrets, but hard hitting, and who the hard hitters are, is only part of the solution.

As DC for Doge All Go, I'm inclined to agree with Galithor's general thoughts on Zone currently. We decided when making the team that we were going to play all zone defense, and we'll be sticking with it, but as it functions currently, it is much less effective at defending passes than a man defense team with equivalent awareness/coverage skills.

We have guys who have maxed out their zone awareness and routinely cover the worst receiver on cross-ups, or just ignore the fact that the one guy they are covering has a pass heading to him, and wait for them to catch it before doing anything besides giving them a 5 yard cushion.

Going into this zone plan I had a feeling it would be a struggle for the first few seasons, as reaction speed and quickness are critical, and as a sophomore team, we still have a long ways to go with mobility skills, but I remain optimistic. However, part of that optimism is a hope that the zone coverage programming will receive tweaks that make it more functionally sound.

Maybe add some ability to recognize whether or not a receiver is on the way to their zone, if so don't chase some guy into a teammate's zone like a fool, and if not, adjust themselves towards a likely target area (follow that guy).

Another issue I've encountered is that guys are set in flat zones on far too many plays, or if you prefer, guys are not in flat zones on too few plays, mainly blitzes. Corners are the best coverage players, but they are forced to play the flats on the vast majority of blitzes that rush less than 8 guys. Flat zone behavior makes them worthless against pretty much every pass, which basically makes those blitzes unusable.

What all this amounts to for me currently, is that the best zone pass defense is Engage Eight. a Cover 3 heavy blitz (or cover 2 + middle under) with the corners actually able to participate in defending passes, should one be thrown, because they're not in flat zones. Sure, if a pass is thrown, it's rarely defended well, but the QB doesn't have time to wait for receivers to out-run or cross-up the few zones there are on the play.