Warrior General Games

Between First Step, Tunnel vision, and Showboat - I think all three have merits for different reasons.

First Step activates more reliably and can get you the acceleration you need on an end-around to make it within pressure range. Simple. Half of your sacks as a DE seem to be making the end-around and the QB rolling into you / the OT not turning in time and the other half are Spin Cycle firing giving you a clear path. First step would help with the first one I imagine (unless it counts right after you break out of the block as a dead stop, which I'm actually not sure about).

Tunnel Vision activation is suspect as Spin Cycle DE's don't really have the attribute caps to get Pass Rush Power up there (I believe). I'm not really sure how much better raw sprinting/quickness is than the acceleration boost either. It seems you want to take it for the minimum on pass power rolls, which a Spin Cycle DE doesn't care about.

Showboat doesn't help you get sacks but if you run a frontline or blitzing LB's with Showboat it's going to make a big difference. Just level 2 showboat is -10 morale to the entire offense and +5 to the entire defense. If you have your blitzing LB's and your DE's running Showboat2, and you can get 5 sacks a game (not too unusual) that's a total -50 morale to the entire offense and +25 through the defense. I would also say as a counterpoint that if you're DE/LB's aren't committing to Showboat it's much more impactful on the LB's. They are getting the majority of the sacks as it is.

Really I think the argument is between First Step or Showboat but I included Tunnel Vision for completeness.

Monster Hit could also be interesting but I don't think QB's will care too much about their fumble protection for a good while to make it better than the other options.

Thoughts?

Showboat for all the reasons you listed. I would even take it first if say your whole DL and Blitzing LBs all took it!

I kind of feel like it's better to get the sack than make your sacks better - at least for DE's that are doing most of their work solo

LB's seem to rarely do anything but run through the hole for a freebie so I'd argue Showboat is probably #1 there

I lean to First Step in this argument. Those end arounds would be so much better with a huge acceleration boost

What about for blitzing LBers? Im building one next season.

Definitely going with showboat but not sure on my second SA. Im thinking either first step or trash talk. No need for spin cycle as most LBer blitzes go through untouched.

first step would be nice to help get the sack or make a tackle but trash talk coupled with showboat and relatively high intimidation could make the QB piss himself and give up?

Showboat

Dont really know yet but I was thinking showboat. With having spin cycle maxed out you are probably better off running into the blocker to initiate spin cycle then trying to run around them with first step or tunnel vision. Seems like it would be faster to me.....well for DE's anyway

Any time you are blitzing it's a fight against the QB checkdown clock. Most Spin DE's need/want to be fast to make up the ground between the QB and the LoS before the ball gets released.

There might be an argument between pass rush settings for Elusive DE's (whether you would just want to try and engage the block to get spin cycle as quickly as possible) but I could point to numerous examples of sacks/hurries/TFL coming from the end-around route you end up taking on that elusive setting. Like I've said before, I would even say up to 50% of your generated pressure is coming off of those run-around-the-blocker plays where the QB rolls into you / hands off into you.

It's hard for an OT to find enough points to be as quick as you the Sprinting/Quickness/Footwork/Pass Rush Technique DE with much less to worry about.

Showboat is pretty much better as far as lasting game impact is concerned, but if First Step gets you that acceleration boost you need to get an extra sack off those plays you go unblocked but the QB manages to release the ball just before you get there...

It's the age old question of "Would you rather have the other QB missing 20 morale on 3rd down, or just to not get a 3rd down chance at all?"

Originally posted by Laggo
Any time you are blitzing it's a fight against the QB checkdown clock. Most Spin DE's need/want to be fast to make up the ground between the QB and the LoS before the ball gets released.

There might be an argument between pass rush settings for Elusive DE's (whether you would just want to try and engage the block to get spin cycle as quickly as possible) but I could point to numerous examples of sacks/hurries/TFL coming from the end-around route you end up taking on that elusive setting. Like I've said before, I would even say up to 50% of your generated pressure is coming off of those run-around-the-blocker plays where the QB rolls into you / hands off into you.

It's hard for an OT to find enough points to be as quick as you the Sprinting/Quickness/Footwork/Pass Rush Technique DE with much less to worry about.

Showboat is pretty much better as far as lasting game impact is concerned, but if First Step gets you that acceleration boost you need to get an extra sack off those plays you go unblocked but the QB manages to release the ball just before you get there...

It's the age old question of "Would you rather have the other QB missing 20 morale on 3rd down, or just to not get a 3rd down chance at all?"

I could eventually see an argument for different tactics against different opponents. If you're playing a team you know has heavily invested pass blocking skills, then it's likely that spin cycle will get fewer opportunities to fire, so elusive may be the way to go. If you're playing a team that you know has invested heavily in run blocking, combo may be the way to go since you can probably count on spin cycle firing early and often with all the rolls you'll be winning. Assuming your DC doesn't need you on elusive for some anti-outside rushing strategy or somethin'.

I don't take Showboat beyond the first level. It already fires 100% of the time there is a TFL or sack, so there's no gain on activation chance. The difference between level 1 Showboat and level 2 isn't that much... and those APs are hard to come by in this game.

Tunnel vision is great, but you do give up some blitz awareness for the activation. Again, it depends on how high you can take Pass Rush Power... if you are able to get it to at least 50 I would make the argument that you go Spin Cycle, First Step/Tunnel Vision, First Step/Tunnel Vision as your three.

As you said, Monster Hit is a wild card that I would play if you want to go with Power Tackling... most QBs totally ignore their drop back skills that allow them to break the tackle or hold on to the ball. Even 40 power tackling has made the FFs pretty reliable in Seasoned.

First Step + Tunnel Vision sounds like a deadly combo.

Gotta remember that Monster Hit requires you to be running at at least 50% of your top speed.
This happens a lot less often than you'd think on a DE and is most likely a waste of AP, regardless of your build type.

Originally posted by nortobc
First Step + Tunnel Vision sounds like a deadly combo.

deadly for your defense if the blitzer doesn't make it inside the autocheck halo