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Forum > Suggestions > Add awareness bonuses versus repeated plays
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Xavori
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First, I have to acknowledge CKeppelrun who brought up that there should be some benefit to a diverse playbook in a conversation we were having. He was making the same rookie mistake so many new players do in assuming that there is any resemblance between a real football playbook versus a human who will catch on very quickly to repeated plays, and a simball football playbook where every play is a discrete event.

My suggestion is that every time a play is run, the opposition should be given a small bonus to all awareness checks versus that play. So if the offense is running nothing by HB Slam, the defence will quickly start making all man/zone coverage checks and all blitz awareness checks. Now, this might not be enough to stop a team that executes that play perfectly, but the goal isn't guaranteeing eventual failure, just adding difficulty to repeated plays. The same would happen to a defense that called nothing but Dogs All Go. Eventually the offense would start making all their awareness checks increasing, but not guaranteeing, the chance they'll beat that defense.

To account for the identification issues resulting from multiple plays from the same formation, when an offense or defense runs a different play from the same formation, it should decrease the awareness bonus by about half that running a play increases it. Running any other play should also decrease the awareness, but only by a tiny amount.

So, it'd work something like this:

All plays in the playbook being used for a sim would get a new variable attached to them called RepeatEffect

At the end of a play,
RepeatEffect = RepeatEffect + 8
*.SameFormation.RepeateEffect = RepeatEffect - 2
*.*.RepeatEffect = RepeatEffect - 1
if *.*.RepeatEffect < 0 then RepeatEffect = 0

This bit of pseudocode would leave a 5 point effect in place after a play is run for the play that was just run, decrease plays that are the same formation by 3, and all other plays by 1.

The overall goal should be to encourage diverse playcalling without requiring it.
 
hiimjake
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I brought this up last season, in slightly fewer words, when everyone was going DAG crazy. Didn't get much traction. +1 from me though.
 
gtthom86
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an obvious +1. glb classic had the same thing right?
 
gtthom86
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Originally posted by Xavori


So, it'd work something like this:

All plays in the playbook being used for a sim would get a new variable attached to them called RepeatEffect

At the end of a play,
RepeatEffect = RepeatEffect + 8
*.SameFormation.RepeateEffect = RepeatEffect - 2
*.*.RepeatEffect = RepeatEffect - 1
if *.*.RepeatEffect < 0 then RepeatEffect = 0

This bit of pseudocode would leave a 5 point effect in place after a play is run for the play that was just run, decrease plays that are the same formation by 3, and all other plays by 1.

The overall goal should be to encourage diverse playcalling without requiring it.


as as far as that point who knows..? not this guy

Edited by gtthom86 on Apr 2, 2014 00:47:57
Edited by gtthom86 on Apr 2, 2014 00:47:57
Edited by gtthom86 on Apr 2, 2014 00:47:38
 
TxSteve
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Yes there was a repeat play penalty in GLB1 -

I could see it here - eventually - but wouldn't we need a LOT more plays first?
 
Corndog
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Originally posted by TxSteve
Yes there was a repeat play penalty in GLB1 -

I could see it here - eventually - but wouldn't we need a LOT more plays first?


I think Bort pretty much ported over all of thr offensive plays?

As for the actual suggestion...kind of torn. There's not really a consolidated place for awareness checks so I'd have to go through all of the sim code and find every place that checks are made and modify it...and I'm not sure the suggestion has enough benefit to warrant that.

I'm also not sure how much awareness checks would really help. Awareness alone is just going to make you cognizant of getting your ass kicked.
 
TxSteve
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Interesting - I didn't know all the plays got moved.

Thinking about this more -

Didn't we call it 'auto adjust' in GLB1? I see it here too - several days back I had an offense with a bunch of spread dives....1st play of the game I notice the other team is running 5-2 man base against me (Oh Crap!). Had a sinking feeling in my stomach and got absolutely stuffed all game long. That's the way the game goes though....

To re-introduce auto adjust - or whatever - would probably be pretty low on the priority list considering the amount of programming time it would require.

It is rage inducing to get GL leg swept over and over -- and not have a great play in to stop it -- but that is what GLB is. We each put in a tactic -- and we see how it plays out. If I decide to go QB roll out nearly every play -- and you don't have a good play in place to stop it -- I'm probably going to win...

It's like rock/paper/scissors/lizard/spock....and its kind of supposed to be like that right? (with the fact that builds have a lot of influence since winning one individual matchup can change the play on either side.)
 
Xavori
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Originally posted by Corndog
I think Bort pretty much ported over all of thr offensive plays?

As for the actual suggestion...kind of torn. There's not really a consolidated place for awareness checks so I'd have to go through all of the sim code and find every place that checks are made and modify it...and I'm not sure the suggestion has enough benefit to warrant that.

I'm also not sure how much awareness checks would really help. Awareness alone is just going to make you cognizant of getting your ass kicked.


Is it possible to temporarily buff a team's stats at the start of the play? So instead of having to go through and tweak all the awareness checks, you just create a bit of code at the start of the play that bumps up all the awareness stats for the players making it unnecessary to change any of the awareness checks themselves. Even if you had to create a variable like TempManAwareness, etc., you could just search and replace the code variables rather than have to dig to find it all.

As for how much it'd help, I'm more interested in seeing tweaks that make sense and that aren't going to require completely relearning the game every update. It just makes sense that if you know that when a team lines up a certain way, they're prolly going to do certain things, and so you anticipate those things. It doesn't mean you're suddenly going to be strong enough not to get shoved out of the way by a power blocking FB or suddenly quick enough to juke past a LB in the backfield. It just means you'll start trying to do whatever it is you're going to do a bit earlier.
Edited by Xavori on Apr 2, 2014 07:50:32
 
Cuivienen
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Originally posted by Corndog
I think Bort pretty much ported over all of thr offensive plays?

As for the actual suggestion...kind of torn. There's not really a consolidated place for awareness checks so I'd have to go through all of the sim code and find every place that checks are made and modify it...and I'm not sure the suggestion has enough benefit to warrant that.

I'm also not sure how much awareness checks would really help. Awareness alone is just going to make you cognizant of getting your ass kicked.


Not sure exactly how you handle it, but assuming you important all player stats into the sim at the start and store it in a discrete place. Best way to handle something like this is, before the first tick of a play, run the awareness boost code based on previous plays, then modify the player stats in that list. At the start of the next play, modify the list again, including if you have to remove the boost because it is a new play.

This would require a new list tracking boosts so you know when to add, when to subtract, and also so you don't end up with a boost less than zero.
 
Xavori
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
Not sure exactly how you handle it, but assuming you important all player stats into the sim at the start and store it in a discrete place. Best way to handle something like this is, before the first tick of a play, run the awareness boost code based on previous plays, then modify the player stats in that list. At the start of the next play, modify the list again, including if you have to remove the boost because it is a new play.

This would require a new list tracking boosts so you know when to add, when to subtract, and also so you don't end up with a boost less than zero.


Just undo the changes to awareness at the end of each play. It's simple addition and subtraction so it's only adding the tiniest bit of server load.
 
Cuivienen
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You still need a separate function and list(s) to track play counts, etc., to make this work.
 
Xavori
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
You still need a separate function and list(s) to track play counts, etc., to make this work.


Uh, no. I'm kinda assuming each play during the sim is an object (cuz why wouldn't you program it like that) which means each play will be able to store it own copy of RepeatEffect. Or, if plays are in a database, then the play would be a record and then you'd just make a field for RepeatEffect.

Either way, that part's easy.
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by TxSteve
Interesting - I didn't know all the plays got moved.

Thinking about this more -

Didn't we call it 'auto adjust' in GLB1? I see it here too - several days back I had an offense with a bunch of spread dives....1st play of the game I notice the other team is running 5-2 man base against me (Oh Crap!). Had a sinking feeling in my stomach and got absolutely stuffed all game long. That's the way the game goes though....

To re-introduce auto adjust - or whatever - would probably be pretty low on the priority list considering the amount of programming time it would require.

It is rage inducing to get GL leg swept over and over -- and not have a great play in to stop it -- but that is what GLB is. We each put in a tactic -- and we see how it plays out. If I decide to go QB roll out nearly every play -- and you don't have a good play in place to stop it -- I'm probably going to win...

It's like rock/paper/scissors/lizard/spock....and its kind of supposed to be like that right? (with the fact that builds have a lot of influence since winning one individual matchup can change the play on either side.)


So you had a one dimensional plan and the other team put the right D in to stop it. Sounds like what should happen. The solution is to not be one dimensional.
 
TxSteve
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Originally posted by Time Trial
So you had a one dimensional plan and the other team put the right D in to stop it. Sounds like what should happen. The solution is to not be one dimensional.


agree 1000% that was my point. I took a chance and put all my eggs in one basket -- and I paid the price (though I did still get lucky and win).

I didn't phrase it well - but I'm saying I think some kind of auto adjust tactics is something I'm against.
Edited by TxSteve on Apr 2, 2014 11:07:30
 
Xavori
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Originally posted by TxSteve
agree 1000% that was my point. I took a chance and put all my eggs in one basket -- and I paid the price (though I did still get lucky and win).

I didn't phrase it well - but I'm saying I think some kind of auto adjust tactics is something I'm against.


And I'm not suggesting auto-adjust tactics. At least not right away because that's something you'd want to put a lot more detail in.

This suggestion is merely trying to apply the "common sense" idea that if a team is running the same play a lot, the other team should start to anticipate what is going to happen.
 
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