Warrior General Games

*Will Update OP as we go

tl;dr - Position man coverage defenders INSIDE receivers, NOT over the top. Make them react to receivers reactions.

Defensive: Coverage Improvement
As it currently stands, it appears the defender runs "with" and not "after" the receiver. Often times, you'll see a defender running with the receiver he is covering, only a yard or two DEEPER than said receiver.
Examples:
A. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/14253/2342345 - Defender runts 1-2 yards deeper than the receiver he's covering. As a result, the completion is easy, and the receiver has plenty of room to cut up field.
B. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/27095/2199369 - Watch CB1 run a yard DEEPER than WR1
C. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/16769/2358470 - CB1 is running "with" WR1. Which was fine, here, until the receiver slows down for the pass. Since CB1 wasn't apparently paying attention to the WR, he kept running.

In reality, a defender in man coverage SHOULD be the receiver's shadow, not his guide. You go where he goes. You look when he looks. He breaks, you break. He stops, you stop.

1. Defender should line up over his receiver, distance FROM that receiver dictated by down/distance and WHO you are covering. Deep threats often get a little more of a "cushion" with slower defenders.

2. Upon the snap of the ball, the defender has to quickly assess whether it's a run or a pass. His first step is always to backpedal and read (Man Coverage Awareness) the offense. If he reads run, he breaks off his back pedal (quickness) and attacks. (CBs are usually containment) If he stays in coverage, he backpedals until A. The receiver has closed that cushion enough to warrant opening his hips (footwork) and pursuing his receiver.

3. If the receiver continues down field, the defender will often "cover" him by positioning himself as close to the receiver as he can between the QB and the receiver. This is usually on the receiver's inside hip. If the receiver breaks before he closes that "cushion", the defender must break as well. If the receiver makes a cut in his route, the defender follows. Like I said, the defender is now the WR's "shadow". (Coverage Technique)

4. Once the QB passes the ball, the defender in man coverage is probably still focused on his man. If the receiver looks up and tries to locate the ball, as should the defender (man coverage awareness), and react accordingly. When the ball is near he can deflect, intercept, shield the receiver (get your body between the receiver and the ball) or bat/rip the ball from the receiver if he gets his hands on it, OR as a last chance, tackle the receiver.

1 and 2 im pretty sure already are happening.

3 is where the main change occurs.

Right now the CB->WR interaction is all out of whack. I think if you fix the interaction (and give pass deflection a slight buff) then everything is cool. You might even beable 2 ignore the faulty CB->ball interaction if you get the CB-WR interaction right.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
1 and 2 im pretty sure already are happening.

3 is where the main change occurs.

Right now the CB->WR interaction is all out of whack. I think if you fix the interaction (and give pass deflection a slight buff) then everything is cool. You might even beable 2 ignore the faulty CB->ball interaction if you get the CB-WR interaction right.

I agree 3 is the difference. Out of curiosity, what do you think is the faulty defender/ball interaction? I guess I haven't paid much mind to that.

Originally posted by Staz
what do you think is the faulty defender/ball interaction?

pass defenders have the AWESOME ability to not give a hell about a thrown ball until it hits the receivers hands

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/13868/368616

best part about this is the WR works like hell from the point the ball leaves the QBs hands (granted he passes his awr checks).

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
pass defenders have the AWESOME ability to not give a hell about a thrown ball until it hits the receivers hands

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/13868/368616

best part about this is the WR works like hell from the point the ball leaves the QBs hands (granted he passes his awr checks).

That looks pretty shitty. I'd say a little of that issue would be fixed if the defender responded to the receiver CLEARLY adjusting for the ball and in turn looked for it himself.

Originally posted by Staz
That looks pretty shitty. I'd say a little of that issue would be fixed if the defender responded to the receiver CLEARLY adjusting for the ball and in turn looked for it himself.

You can say this, or the CB can react to the ball leaving the QBs hands.

Either one should work fine, but a balance between the two is best of course.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
You can say this, or the CB can react to the ball leaving the QBs hands.

Either one should work fine, but a balance between the two is best of course.

Balance between the two? How would that work?

Originally posted by Staz
Balance between the two? How would that work?

idk... you know how in glb1 if you put your settings for aggressive ints CBs would sometimes try to jump the routes, either getting them a pick or giving up a big play by the WR.

I could see something like that being applicable here. CBs main priority is WR, but once ball leaves the CBs hand, he has to balance him going for the ball and him defending the WR..

Idk how possible this is from a coding perspective, but this (i think) is the theory behind decent reactions from CBs.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
idk... you know how in glb1 if you put your settings for aggressive ints CBs would sometimes try to jump the routes, either getting them a pick or giving up a big play by the WR.

I could see something like that being applicable here. CBs main priority is WR, but once ball leaves the CBs hand, he has to balance him going for the ball and him defending the WR..

Idk how possible this is from a coding perspective, but this (i think) is the theory behind decent reactions from CBs.

Honestly, from playing CB and S myself. Once the ball is in the air I am a damn receiver too. The only time I play the WR instead of the ball while it is in the air is if I am not going to be close when the ball gets there or the WR or someone else has good position and is between me and the ball.

This should be how the CB reacts too. He needs to act like a receiver and fight for the ball first. He's in a constant check to determine whether he can make a play on the ball, and if he can't only then does he maneuver himself in a position to make a play on the WR.

In GLB2 the CB mainly runs the WR's route, pretends he doesn't see the ball or downright watches him catch it, and then immediately as he catches the ball, even if he didn't recognize the ball ever being thrown, auto-locates and attempts to pursue the receiver.

Definitely difficult to code (I think CB is most skilled and most difficult to play/be good at), but I think a good starting point is getting the defense off rails and making them much more reactionary. They probably need to make 2 checks in the time each offensive player makes 1. The offense is going more off of a set plan, and reacting very little. They all have a general idea where the ball should be going at what times. The defense has a loose plan, but needs to react and change quickly based on what they see being thrown at them, because they don't have much of a clue where the ball is going or when.

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
Once the ball is in the air I am a damn receiver too. The only time I play the WR instead of the ball while it is in the air is if I am not going to be close when the ball gets there or the WR or someone else has good position and is between me and the ball.


That's a pretty radical and aggressive point of view.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
idk... you know how in glb1 if you put your settings for aggressive ints CBs would sometimes try to jump the routes, either getting them a pick or giving up a big play by the WR.

I could see something like that being applicable here. CBs main priority is WR, but once ball leaves the CBs hand, he has to balance him going for the ball and him defending the WR..

Idk how possible this is from a coding perspective, but this (i think) is the theory behind decent reactions from CBs.

I'd say it's along the lines of

- Covering receiver. As soon as ball is released, receiver begins to "track" the ball. Defender notices receiver looking/adjusting (man awareness. Fairly easy check), and turns to locate the ball as well (Man awareness, tougher check).
- Defender then decides with method is best based on his skills (more man awareness checks, maybe even coverage technique) and location of the receiver, ball, coverage, etc.

That way, the defender isn't keying off the QB directly, really. He's keying off the receiver who is keying off the QB. Does that sound good?

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
Honestly, from playing CB and S myself. Once the ball is in the air I am a damn receiver too. The only time I play the WR instead of the ball while it is in the air is if I am not going to be close when the ball gets there or the WR or someone else has good position and is between me and the ball.

That's all dependent on receiver, skill, ball location, etc. Sometimes (and you see this often in reality), it's best for a defender to just "get in the way" of a receiver, to stay between the ball and his man. If you leave your man to break on the pass, you run the risk of all sorts of things. You're not the only one going after the ball, after all, and a receiver with good awareness and physical skills can make that break, too. In fact, it's likely that's exactly what he's trying to do. So, if you leave him unchecked, or free to maneuver, his chances of making a big play increase quite a bit.

That's why I liked the aggressiveness choices in GLB1. While not perfect, it was a nice little adjustment to a player's "mindset".

Figure I'll bring this back up to the top

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/32641/3365449?player_id=55384

Making the defender become a receiver as well would be a close argument for a fix, but in reality a lot of defenders have no idea the ball was thrown and a play like the one I linked is kinda reality sometimes.

However higher awareness should give a roll to clue the defender into a throw (as tooltip says) and attempt for a deflection or interception. If there's no shot at the ball, defender should move to tackle. If positioning is terrible, containment should be the last option.

But not everyone wants to risk even more yards after carry so a tactic setting would be great.

Aggressive - always goes for the pick/deflect
Combo - defender tries to make a play on ball only if in a good position
Reserved - defender only goes for the pick/deflection if another defender within 4 yards
Never - defender is useless

Originally posted by Mezirah
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/32641/3365449?player_id=55384

Making the defender become a receiver as well would be a close argument for a fix, but in reality a lot of defenders have no idea the ball was thrown and a play like the one I linked is kinda reality sometimes.

However higher awareness should give a roll to clue the defender into a throw (as tooltip says) and attempt for a deflection or interception. If there's no shot at the ball, defender should move to tackle. If positioning is terrible, containment should be the last option.

But not everyone wants to risk even more yards after carry so a tactic setting would be great.

Aggressive - always goes for the pick/deflect
Combo - defender tries to make a play on ball only if in a good position
Reserved - defender only goes for the pick/deflection if another defender within 4 yards
Never - defender is useless


honestly, I think this sort of logic is already built in, but it's based completely on whether the receiver feels they have enough help over the top. If you watch cover 2 enough, you'll often see 2 of your CBs on the underneath coverage play the more aggressive trailing position on a receiver. The other CBs play looser and ahead of the receiver. Those two CBs playing aggressively are doing so because of whatever logic that told them the safety in the shell on their side of the field has targeted their receiver.

Cover 0 and Cover 1 defense just aren't going to see very aggressive coverage ever. Nor should they. We see these softer coverages get torched on bombs as it is occasionally, it'd be much worse if they weren't playing softer.

If you wanna see an aggressive man coverage, run the play 3 man deep. You should end up with 3 of your 5 underneath coverage guys regularly playing aggressively.