Warrior General Games

So the effects of low morale are pretty obvious, you can see players with low morale throwing more OTPs and dropping more balls etc etc
but with stamina its harder to see the effect
case in point, here are 2 plays from the same game
now its really hard to find plays where a player runs 40 yards in one direction, but here are 2 where the same player (Fast White WR) runs 20 yards in one direction
in one he has near full stamina/morale, in one his stamina/morale are both in the 30s
his 20 yd dash time is basically exactly the same in both plays
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/15325/1600687
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/15325/1602568

i went looking for a better example after i noticed the same thing with one of my rookies, and i thought well, he has 35 sprinting and 20 conditioning, maybe his stats arent high enough to see the difference
but this guy has over 80 sprinting and has closer to 30 conditioning and realistically you should see a significant difference between a gassed player trying to run and a rested player trying to run

so seriously, what does stamina do?
if you are gassed, what are the effects?

Great question. I have no clue.

I was just thinking about this recently when I saw an O-Line with 30-35 stamina playing without backups in sophomore.

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't have nearly the effect that it should. There are some strong believers in high conditioning. I am not one of those. My 25 conditioning team did just fine on the test server, despite warnings from the Admins that my team wouldn't hold its own in the higher leagues.

60 was the highest I ever took conditioning, and that was for my S* Speed WR.

I intend most of my conditioning to be in the high 30s or low 40s at build's end, with the exception of my super sprinting bots and bots with no backups (like my FB).

Conditioning effects all of your attributes, most notably speed consistency. As a play runs on you become slower and slower as your energy decreases. (much like real life really) Higher conditioning slows down the process of losing energy on a given play and also helps increase energy from play to play.

A 20 yard dash is almost irrelevant in terms of speed differential when talking about energy. 50-100 yards is a different story. Long routes across field are a different story. Of course routes that aren't just streaks use up a couple of other different attributes themselves. (Quickness and the Route running stuff)

Originally posted by bhall43
Conditioning effects all of your attributes, most notably speed consistency. As a play runs on you become slower and slower as your energy decreases. (much like real life really) Higher conditioning slows down the process of losing energy on a given play and also helps increase energy from play to play.

A 20 yard dash is almost irrelevant in terms of speed differential when talking about energy. 50-100 yards is a different story. Long routes across field are a different story. Of course routes that aren't just streaks use up a couple of other different attributes themselves. (Quickness and the Route running stuff)

i get a lot of what you're saying, but someone who has a third of their normal energy should show a decrease in even 20 yard dash times
and those two plays have that guy getting to 20 yards within a tick of each other
and sure, i get that it could be that he just rolled better the second time on his checks for speed quickness and route stuff etc, and so he ran it exactly as fast as the first one, but i noticed this on my own guys and then went out to fins a guy with high sprinting to check and in all cases 20 yards is roughly the same amount of ticks, and that just lowers the value of stamina below where it ought to be
in real life, when you're "gassed" you usually cant do much better than a quick jog, and you'll see the difference between a quick jog and a full on sprint at 20 yards easily

what i'm saying is it's entirely possible that its coded in the right mindset but just doesnt have enough of an effect

Tbh idk...

but the team I GM was giving up a lot of 4th Q points and often getting stopped easily in the 4th Q,
so we added about ~20 conditioning teamwide, and now we actually score in the 4th Q.

I don't think it has the effect it should have though, considering the fact that my QB is often at 1/1 energy/morale and still boasts a 60.6 complete %.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Tbh idk...

but the team I GM was giving up a lot of 4th Q points and often getting stopped easily in the 4th Q,
so we added about ~20 conditioning teamwide, and now we actually score in the 4th Q.

I don't think it has the effect it should have though, considering the fact that my QB is often at 1/1 energy/morale and still boasts a 60.6 complete %.

ive noticed more OTPs by my qb late in the game, and more passes not being secured by WRs, though its not always just with low morale
i definitely feel like stamina has some affect on the sim but i think it has to affect top speed and acceleration down the field in a way where you can see the difference possibly even at 10 yards by at least a couple ticks and several ticks if not 10 ticks at 20 yards, and 20 ticks at 40 yards etc

I run a low conditioning team that put up 17 points in a late game comeback recently.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/20389

Ultimately the 17 points wasn't enough, but they were all I scored and they all came in the 4th.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/22216

In this one, I scored 17 points in the first half, 21 points in the 4th quarter.

I think morale probably has more to do with the results than conditioning.

Fast White WR does get a better snap reaction roll on the second replay than the first. He's moving a full tick sooner at 9 instead of 10. Of course, he also appears to reach the same 20 yards downfield roughly a tick sooner in the second replay too, which would mean the lower energy start and ending points didn't have any effect whatsoever on his 20 yard speed.

Perhaps energy and morale don't impact physical skills at all though. Maybe they only impact the various other football skill categories like carrying, receiving, blocking, coverage, pass rush, etc.

Energy isn't going to have a super dramatic reach on your skills. At best it probably results in a 5% decrease in skills. So the only real effect it is having on LHF's WR there is a hit to his 83 speed because no other skill is being really effected at 30 or fewer in terms of his speed. So realistically you are seeing him run around a 79 speed in replay 2.

Those numbers are all theoretical of course. But I doubt the penalty reaches farther than that when considering morale, energy, and attributes along. If conditioning has more of an effect than that sort of a difference, I am hard pressed not to feel like the most important SA's are going to be RW, HTH, and Second Wind.

so the difference between 90 conditioning and 10 conditioning is 5% of total skills in the 3rd and 4th quarter?

Originally posted by flynn
so the difference between 90 conditioning and 10 conditioning is 5% of total skills in the 3rd and 4th quarter?

Theoretical numbers based on what I would guess the max % loss of skills would be. So that would be the difference between 100 and 0. So if my theory on the % is correct that is the difference closer to around 82 and 80 in those 2 replays.

Originally posted by flynn
so the difference between 90 conditioning and 10 conditioning is 5% of total skills in the 3rd and 4th quarter?

It might be more, but not as big of a penalty as it should be.

When I'm feeling gassed, it means that I'm less likely to push myself. I can usually run at full speed, but getting there is a lot harder and making the hard turns is much more difficult.

When I'm gassed, it is like there is a delayed reaction before effort is commited to. Instead of just doing something, my body makes my brain rationalize whether this new expenditure of energy is going to be worth it. It makes you give up on plays quicker and makes you work for that extra 5% much more.

Originally posted by bhall43
Theoretical numbers based on what I would guess the max % loss of skills would be. So that would be the difference between 100 and 0. So if my theory on the % is correct that is the difference closer to around 82 and 80 in those 2 replays.

hrmmm
i get that you're not sure of the % but you seem to be at least close to right based on present evidence
given that, i suppose a fully built toon who has lots of important skills at high levels might find it useful to spend on conditioning
but that just seems to be not enough of a penalty for having low conditioning
especially since in order to mitigate all of that you actually have to have good conditioning, heart, toughness, so you have to spend sp on 3 skills to prevent your skills from going down at most 3 points in the late part of the game, and thats only for the skills at high levels
i dont think that makes mathematical sense in terms of spending on those 3 stats to prevent the skill loss
the penalty definitely needs to be more, so that dots have to have at least some points spent in those things or risk being too winded to play