Warrior General Games

There are a lot of people who don't like the current sim because many teams just pass all day to their HB/FB, and thus have named this SIM Scatball. This is very similar to the old Slamball SIM when all it took to win was to pound the ball up the middle play after play. It creates a one-sided offense that gets old fast.

While I would love to see a more balanced passing SIM, good teams, including mine, use what works, and currently, that is a Scatball style offense. Thus having a Scatball heavy offense, I decided to look the passing numbers over and found some interesting results...

As I expected, the number of receptions my HB/FB's have compared to my WR/TE's is far larger. However, I did notice something interesting. When I went through all my passing plays that were not screens, I noticed that on only 6.6% of those plays did I target a HB or FB in the first progress and only 33.3% on the first or second progression.

What does this tell me? Well that there is better coverage on WR/TE's than there is on HB/FB's. My QB's might look to the WR/TE early most of the time, but those players are well covered so he looks to the HB/FB and finds them open. While I didn't crunch the numbers, I did notice that the completion % to HB/FB was higher than to a WR/TE, which further proves the coverage on WR/TE is better than on HB/FB.

What does all this mean? Well it means the current passing SIM is not setup to defend passes to the HB/FB nearly as well as to the WR/TE. A smart defense could even things out some, but until the SIM itself is fixed, Scatball will continue to thrive. It also shows that teams could be playing a Scatball style offense without really trying to.

You're not considering one thing. A QB won't throw the ball to a receiver outside the hot zone unless he is being pressured. Except for screens that hot zone is usually not in the backfield thus if you target HB/FB in progression 1 the QB will rarely throw them the ball because they are not quick enough to get out of the backfield and into a hot zone before the QB moves on to progression 2.

The only time I find it useful to target a HB/FB in progression 1 is if you want the QB to look to them in progression 6.

I also think it's pretty rare that a QB ever throws to the 1st option unless they are completely wide open. It's usually not until the 3rd read before dots start coming open. I'm sure in the higher level leagues a 1st progression target has a realistic chance of getting the ball thrown to him, but as slow as PW dots are, option #3 and #4 are much more likely to have the ball thrown their way.

Originally posted by 89stepside
I also think it's pretty rare that a QB ever throws to the 1st option unless they are completely wide open. It's usually not until the 3rd read before dots start coming open. I'm sure in the higher level leagues a 1st progression target has a realistic chance of getting the ball thrown to him, but as slow as PW dots are, option #3 and #4 are much more likely to have the ball thrown their way.

Exaggerated perspective because of:

Originally posted by climberpete
You're not considering one thing. A QB won't throw the ball to a receiver outside the hot zone unless he is being pressured. Except for screens that hot zone is usually not in the backfield thus if you target HB/FB in progression 1 the QB will rarely throw them the ball because they are not quick enough to get out of the backfield and into a hot zone before the QB moves on to progression 2.

The only time I find it useful to target a HB/FB in progression 1 is if you want the QB to look to them in progression 6.

The QB almost always throws it to the first progression if and when the first progression is in a hot spot and draws the pass being open, people choose to target routes that don't draw passes here because USUALLY when they do the pass gets deflected in peewee, since the openness is usually just a result of a better start-up roll by the WR and the CB quickly makes up for it while the ball is in the air.

The biggest issue with scatball isn't that the passes get completed all the time even in coverage, even with deflections, it isn't that the passes are nearly impossible to cover with man coverage alone, even double man coverage, the problem with scatball is how the pumpfake interacts with the HB pass.

If you are curious as to what I'm talking about... just check out every pass over 10 yards long this season in a peewee gold league game that wasn't a blow out (and most of those that were) ... yah...

Pump Fake->HB

Completely realistic that a LB in man coverage would attempt to jump at the ball given a really good pump fake from a QB... but is it realistic that on the same play the FS in zone coverage right above him did the same thing?

We have good success with our TEs this season. Im not sure if thats because their builds are better than what is covering them - I dont think so since at least our pass LBs easily match the TEs. More likely, defenses are more focussed on the screen this season leaving the TE in single coverage at best.

Disagree

my HB caught 21/31 for an average of 6.6 yards against you yesterday. ( those included 5 drops when wide open)
he was never the first progression, often was the 3rd, but was ALWAYS the target.

I did not want the QB any chance of throwing until I had him exactly where I wanted him.

Stats will tell you anything....

But this SIM sucks.

Gerr...for as well as you do at this game, your stupidity surrounding the mechanics of the sim often astounds me.

This was one of the dumbest things I've ever read on a GLB forum, and I've seen a lot of stupid noob posts.

XD

Originally posted by PING72
Gerr...for as well as you do at this game, your stupidity surrounding the mechanics of the sim often astounds me.

This was one of the dumbest things I've ever read on a GLB forum, and I've seen a lot of stupid noob posts.

XD

If you understood my meaning, you wouldn't feel that way. There are people we are criticizing others for running a Scatball heavy offense, and I was simply trying to show that you can get Scatball heavy stats even if you are trying to run a balanced offense due to the way the SIM is. Thus they should blame the SIM rather than taking their anger out on the people who have adapted to how the SIM currently is.

I used myself as an example rather than "call" anyone else out as I really don't care what people think of me. Many of my 1st-3rd progression looks are to the WR/TE in hopes for a Pump-Fake or for a defender to overshoot a cut, and if those are not open, my later reads are to the HB/FB. While I would NOT consider this a Scatball style of offense, my stats are Scatball heavy because those early reads to the WR/TE are often well covered and either the QB progresses to the HB/FB reads, or often throws an incomplete pass. I have also reduced the number of screens I am calling due to defenses finally getting better at defending those.

While Scatball is effective, especially early in the season, because of the changes to the XP this season and the fact that the players are more mature during the season and get to a higher level now, I think WR/TE plays will become more effective this season. Yes there are people who try for a Scatball style of offense, meaning screen heavy and most of their reads are to the HB/FB, but there are others like myself who are trying for a more balanced style of offense, but due to the way in which the SIM works, are getting Scatball heavy stats.

Scatball is such a XXX term, I can't say the word or I will get another week off, just took one off for calling Tony Romo a (Ryhmes with Romo)

Originally posted by LordEvil
Scatball is such a XXX term, I can't say the word or I will get another week off, just took one off for calling Tony Romo a (Ryhmes with Romo)

Ouch, harsh! But ya, I don't like the term either, but it does describe the current SIM well just like Slamball did back in the day.

Runningback flat attack

the Mike Martz attack? Greatest Show on turf?

Just screens, pass to the flats and WR slants.......Mike Martz offense in a nut shell

all this analysis to say that pee wee dots can't complete a long pass at level 1. i mean, they can barely complete them at L72+ w/out some sort of mismatch so why should we be at all close?

maybe i'm old school, but I'd prefer my running backs to run and my receivers to catch. this sim hasn't been fun for a few seasons.

Originally posted by Nif
maybe i'm old school, but I'd prefer my running backs to run and my receivers to catch. this sim hasn't been fun for a few seasons.

Amen, where the hell is the running game around here...