Warrior General Games

It's seeming all the pancakes are going to the OT's..... I have a lot higher strength than a lot of olinemen in my division, yet I'm sitting at 12 pancakes, and the leading OT's have like 100+....... what's wrong??

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2013645

Jason Spitz or Swallows (Lv. 26 C)
Ht/Wt: 6'4", 327lbs

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 95.78 (+16)
Speed: 31.17
Agility: 49.93
Jumping: 8
Stamina: 17.17
Vision: 39.02
Confidence: 32.02

Football Skills
Blocking: 68.78
Catching: 8
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 8
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Pass Blocking Abilities
Pass Block: 0
Strong Arm: 0
Shock Block: 0
Foundation: 0
Line General: 0

Run Blocking Abilities
Run Block: 0
Get Low: 0
Hands: 0
Cut Block: 0
Pancake: 3

Additional Abilities
Absorb Pain: 1
Veteran Abilities
Workout Warrior: 3

The problem is he is a C going against DTs that pump up strength to the 81 cap first. The leading OTs are going against DEs that pump up speed and agility first. It's a lot easier to pancake a 270 lb. 50 strength DE than it is to pancake a 335 lb. 100 strength DT.

Edit: Also, you probably want more base strength. Personally, I would enhance it to +30% and then include it in 4-way multi-train rather than assign sp in it at this point.

Originally posted by
It's seeming all the pancakes are going to the OT's

Because everyone everyone everyone builds speed DE's.
When the OT wins the vision check he's pretty much guaranteed to knock most DE's down.
It's the 'Simeon Rice' syndrome.

I disagree with adding more strength. His 'natural' strength is a 81 and adding more sp's to that will be costly.
I'd bump that blocking another notch or two before going back to agility because that is where you will see the best ALG's.

Also, I see you got some AEQ on him already. Buy the enhancements and get him some custom gear.
Your SP bonuses from gear are only 16 at level 26 you ought to have
+6 from custom
+12 from regular gear
and +3 each from enhancing AEQ, or what appears to be 6 on your guy. Or a total of 24.
You can add 8 more strength by tweaking your gear and investing in custom.

Stop putting points in speed until later in his career. If you do get past the NT the back will blow by you long before you get to the MLB, it's a waste at this point.

I also see you invested in Absorb pain. As a center he's not doing a lot of pass blocking, trade that out for get low. Run blocking is where the pancakes are, and is generally what you want a center to be doing.

How are you training him? Being two effective levels down this early is going to hard to overcome.

Originally posted by mknoll
Because everyone everyone everyone builds speed DE's.

I disagree with adding more strength. His 'natural' strength is a 81 and adding more sp's to that will be costly.
I'd bump that blocking another notch or two before going back to agility because that is where you will see the best ALG's.

.

Doesn't cost any sp to train it. 30% enhanced and multi-train gets you 9% per train at 80. It's a good way to add 4-5 more points onto strength without spending sp, and the training return is huge.

I wouldn't do more agility until after you're done with str/blk and vis/con are both capped.

Rage's idea on training str is decent. But to move strength up 1 point, it will take 11 or 12 four way multi-trains. So essentially, each point of str is a little less than a season's worth of training, meaning it will take 4 seasons of intense training at that level to go up 4 points. This is a large price to pay, but may be worth it.

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
I wouldn't do more agility until after you're done with str/blk and vis/con are both capped.

Rage's idea on training str is decent. But to move strength up 1 point, it will take 11 or 12 four way multi-trains. So essentially, each point of str is a little less than a season's worth of training, meaning it will take 4 seasons of intense training at that level to go up 4 points. This is a large price to pay, but may be worth it.

It is only 1 pt per season, but he would be training 3 other attributes at the same time, which primes them for capping at the right spots.

Another option is to get 30% enhancement on strength and train it individually on intense. You get 5% per train from 81-90, so you could bring it up almost 2.8 pts per season.

Most well built NT/DT are going to end up with 155-160 strength and still have 95-100 agility, and there will be some extreme builds that have even more pts in those 2 attributes.

Regardless of how you do it, there's a huge bonus token tradeoff there that he may or may not be able to afford.

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
Regardless of how you do it, there's a huge bonus token tradeoff there that he may or may not be able to afford.

If he were to train on intense for 120 days, then he would get 6 pts of strength. Train on relaxed and get 1.2 pts of strength and 240 more BTs.

So you get 4.8 more pts of strength and lose the BT for upgrading 1 piece of AEQ. It only cost 30 BT to buy the 30% enhancement. It cost 40 BT to buy a +3 strength and another +15 to add an SA. But let's say you get lucky shopping and only end up spending a total of 30 BT which is = to the cost of enhancing.

So you are getting 1.8 more pts of strength with intense training than you would with relaxed training and an additional piece of AEQ. Since it would be the 3rd or most likely the 4th piece of AEQ, it won't be a % piece. Those extra strength points are worth more than an extra 5 in an SA. On top of that, your attribute is naturally higher, so you get a bigger effect from VAs than if the pts were there from equipment.

The return in terms of sp value from multi-train is even higher, but the value is spread out more, so you won't be pushing strength as high, but you can be getting better return in multiple important attributes. The choice is between how high you think you need strength to be end build and how well rounded you want your player to be.

Of course you could be doing the relaxed training on other attributes, but the return in terms of sp/attribute value is going to be roughly the same.

At 72, it's an extra 6. If you're going to claim that 1.8 points in str is worth more than 6 in an SA, you probably shouldn't ever be worried about spending BTs (or SP for that matter) on any SA AE at all for a Center; simply plan for your 2 HB% and dump the rest of your BTs back into Strength at the beginning of the build.

Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm simply pointing out that there are decisions that need to be weighed. It's not as cut and dry as you're making it sound.

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
At 72, it's an extra 6. If you're going to claim that 1.8 points in str is worth more than 6 in an SA, you probably shouldn't ever be worried about spending BTs (or SP for that matter) on any SA AE at all for a Center; simply plan for your 2 HB% and dump the rest of your BTs back into Strength at the beginning of the build.

Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm simply pointing out that there are decisions that need to be weighed. It's not as cut and dry as you're making it sound.

get low is useful, so I can see having 2 pieces of HB% and 1 get low. I wouldn't bother with a 4th piece for any lineman except LOT where I would want protector.

Call me crazy, but I am not sure I would value 1.8 strength over a 3rd hold block%..

Originally posted by Golan
Call me crazy, but I am not sure I would value 1.8 strength over a 3rd hold block%..

At most you get +6.25% from that 3rd piece, and to get that, you are spending 45 more BT than in the scenario above.

Yeah id much rather get a foundation, get low, hands piece above a 3rd HB%. Terrible returns unless you score a +3 STR/+5% HB piece first roll. Then hell yeah Id grab it =)

What is your blocking focus setting? Run block ,pass block or no focus ?

Originally posted by trichome1
Yeah id much rather get a foundation, get low, hands piece above a 3rd HB%. Terrible returns unless you score a +3 STR/+5% HB piece first roll. Then hell yeah Id grab it =)

And 2 pts of strength at the 15 to 1 cap is worth more sp than 6 pts in an SA that goes from 4-10, let alone at the 18 or 19 to 1 cap.