Warrior General Games

Once again last week I did well picking winners. I had Sleepy Hollow too high and did not predict their game correctly - a very interesting story because it was the original source of friction between poopoohead and myself. In week 4, poopoo had Sleepy Hollow ranked #3, and based on their level of play I thought they should be ranked closer to #10 at that point. I posted a suggestion to update his rankings fixing the most horrendous of him many obvious errors by moving Sleepy Hollow to #10 and his response was memorable:

Originally posted by mystikalilusion

Sleepy Hollow beat the no. 5 team in the West, why would you have them at 10?

So no, that doesn't make more sense. I'm not perfect and am all about dissenting opinions, but not retarded ones. Sly, unless you want to take this over every other day, STFU and crawl back in your hole.

Thus motivating me to show that I, or basically anyone, could do better rankings than the awful smelling stuff poopoohead was ejecting. I calculated everything in detail and came out with a set of week 4 rankings showing Sleepy Hollow as the #8 team (a bit better than the #10 I had come up with without calculating everything in detail).

Of course, like all good stories there's a good twist. The very next game, game 5, Sleepy Hollow came out and absolutely dominated the Iowa Hogeyes, a team that started the season very tough. The performance from Sleepy Hollow was so dominating that it seemed to demand they be improved in the rankings to #3. It didn't make sense to me that Sleepy Hollow had improved so much so quickly, and I recognized the irony of my improving Sleepy Hollow's ranking so much as it now seemed to indicate that poopoohead was some kind of fortune teller, but I stayed true to what the results were indicating, based on the information at hand, and put Sleepy Hollow at #3.

This situation was not lost on one of poopoohead's GM's who took the chance to rub it in:

Originally posted by Spectre170

Hey Sly, you had Sleepy Hollow at 8 last week and 3 this week after a win over an Iowa team not ranked in the top 8-10?

Guess where Mystik had SH last week? 3.

Proven superior? Only to you! All you did was copy Mystik's rankings. Way to go, great job.

I responded and explained that I was giving Sleepy Hollow the benefit of the doubt based solely on their game against Iowa being so dominating, but half expected they'd fall right back down the next week to the level where they had been playing all season.

Originally posted by Sly

Sleepy Hollow had BY FAR their best performance of the season last game. I've responded appropriately, and it has nothing to do with poopoo's random rankings. Prior to that game they had lost by 3 to Enghave and barely topped the Houston Toxins by 10. There is NO WAY they should have been ranked #3 PRIOR to this last game and to tell the truth I half expect they will be going down in my rankings as quickly as they came up. Anyone can have a good game one week and then return to form the next week. But I've given them the benefit of the doubt and since they had such an outstanding showing this past game.

Of course the next day when Iowa went CPU it suddenly became obvious that the Sleepy Hollow dominating effort against Iowa the day before might not have been against the same quality of Iowa team that had been playing earlier in the season. And in this latest game Sleepy Hollow returned to a level of play of exactly where I had them in week 4, the #8 team.

But what's amusing is that meanwhile poopoohead has now also dropped Sleepy Hollow to #8!!! Here's betting he doesn't get an obnoxious message from Spectre pointing out that he's copying my ranking and that he said in week 4 that moving Sleepy Hollow down would be "retarded".

From the support I've gotten, which I appreciate, it seems clear that most of us recognize that the rankings here are PROVEN SUPERIOR and that the poopoo rankings are just that.

This game's rankings, I've removed all consideration of the Iowa games. Iowa was clearly not the same team in week 1 as in last week, and will only get weaker, so it makes no sense to try to evaluate comparative performances against them. This means that a few teams had a jump. Sleepy Hollow jumped right back to the #8 where I had them prior to game #4, just as I said I half expected would happen. Bakersfield benefitted since their worst showing of the season had been their 1 point scraper over Iowa - with that game erased from evaluation, Bakersfield has been better over the season than anyone in the East except Mentone Beach. Other Iowa opponents were similarly affected.

I put poopoo's rankings after mine, for reference. His rankings do ok with the very best and very worst teams, and although he has no concept how to rank the teams that are somewhat difficult to rank, and require a bit of skill, his latest rankings copy a lot from my rankings, so are better than earlier versions. Without further ado, here's what I consider to be a FAR superior set of rankings:

WEST
1) Mentone Beach Assault (pp-1) dominating
2) Bakersfield Nanananas (pp-4) only weak showing (with Iowa no longer considered) is squeaking past Detroit with a 4 point win two games ago
3) Corpus Christi Illegal Aliens (pp-2) playing better after the first couple of blah games
4) Mighty Chihuahuas (pp-3) good showing last game
5) Long Beach Dub All-Stars (pp-6) the 3 point loss to Dallas three games ago is the only poor performance on their record
6) Saginaw Supernovas (pp-9) Have played a tough schedule and been very competitive.
7) Beantown Bastards (pp-8) consistently mediocre
8) Virginia George Washingtons (pp-7) Benefitted indirectly from improved rankings of some of their opponents
9a) Steel City Sentinels (pp-11) worst showing of the season against Mightly last game
9b) Big Bear Avalanche (pp-10) solid organization but has struggled this season
9c) Dallas Hitmen (pp-5) trouncing by Mentone Beach at predicted amount confirms they are ranked about right
12) Idaho Rex (pp-12) crushed the last 2 games
13) Los Angeles Cobras (pp-14) CPU
14) Eugene SLUGs (pp-13)
15) Pittsburgh Stillers (pp-15)
16) Washington Bow Chicka Brown Cows (pp-16)

EAST
1a) Tennessee Fury (pp-1) having a good season
1b) Boston Bears (pp-2) did poorly game 1 but have shown dramatic improvement
3) Phoenix Scorpions (pp-7) a mighty franchise last season that is getting back on track
4) Dirty Cheetahs (pp-3) solid team but would probably be fighting for the #8 playoff spot if they were in the West
5a) Saint Paul Vulcans (pp-4) returned to form with a nice win last game over New Jersey
5b) Louisiana State Tighas (pp-10) hung close with Dirty last game, as predicted
7a) New Jersey Mobsters (pp-9) hot and cold team had worst showing of the season last game against Saint Paul, losing by 14
7b) Sleepy Hollow Horsemen (pp-8) With the Iowa games no longer being considered, they come right back to where I had them before
9a) Houston Toxins (pp-11) pounded last game
9b) Texas Wrecking Crew (pp-5) also pounded last game
9c) Enghave Evolution (pp-6) beat Sleepy Hollow by 3 in game 4 but a 1 point win over the NJ Hitmen? Are you serious?
12) Iowa Hogeyes (pp-14) CPU
13) NJ Hitmen (pp-12)
14) Los Angeles Bicycle Clowns (pp-13)
15) Philadelphia Birds (pp-15)
16) Atlantic City Aces (pp-16)

I will back up these rankings by making some predictions about upcoming games - I'm waiting for them to post the matchups to make it easier for me.

Originally posted by Sly

Of course the next day when Iowa went CPU it suddenly became obvious that the Sleepy Hollow dominating effort against Iowa the day before might not have been against the same quality of Iowa team that had been playing earlier in the season. And in this latest game Sleepy Hollow returned to a level of play of exactly where I had them in week 4, the #8 team.


I'm curious. What made Iowa impressive in the first five games of the season? The win over the severely under-leveled Aces? Or was it the close loss to Bakersfield in week 1 (the hardest week to plan for if you draw a team you've never faced)?

I don't follow the West close enough to comment, but I do think your top 4 in the East WILL BE accurate at years end. The 5-8 spots are a total toss-up between 5 or 6 teams. At this point of the season, though, I think mystikalilusion's ranking is more accurate overall AT THIS TIME (outside of the Wrecking Crew being #5).

Sly I gotta say I love the rankings. I only have one question though how is Dallas ranked so low. I understand we have had a poor season to this point, but we did beat long beach. Steel city has had all cupcakes except for mighty

Thanks for the vote of confidence, AirMcMVP! Good points about Iowa.

It almost looks to me like Sly's ranking is a prediction of the end of the season. If that is his goal, then his IS superior for that purpose. I think yours is a better ranking of where teams are "now" (outside of the Wrecking Crew).

There's a place for both, honestly. I've learned to ignore the "I'm better" crap from Sly (whether its about a team, rankings, or anything else). He's trying to brand CCIA, just hasn't been as successful as some other teams that have tried the same (see Cobra Kai).

Would be interested in finding out myself (so if Sly responds, could somebody quote his answer, ). The final standings will be the end all and be all to end of season rankings.

My power ranking is done to judge teams on how they are matched up against each other during the course of the season, before the end of the season, when all teams would have completed the same league schedule.

Originally posted by AirMcMVP
There's a place for both, honestly. I've learned to ignore the "I'm better" crap from Sly (whether its about a team, rankings, or anything else).

Yep, filter out a couple things that Sly is saying and he is good as gold.

One thing I wanted to mention to Sly: I agree with you now that the West does look stronger at the top than the East (regarding the comment of the Dirty Cheetahs). I do think Dirty would be #5 or #6 over there (not fighting for #8), but also think Fury would probably be #2 or #3. The West seems stronger at the top, and far weaker in the bottom 8 teams.

I'd complain that the cupcakes give you guys the advantage for winning trophies, but we in the East have benefited from more cupcakes over the past 2-3 seasons.

Originally posted by AirMcMVP
I'm curious. What made Iowa impressive in the first five games of the season? The win over the severely under-leveled Aces? Or was it the close loss to Bakersfield in week 1 (the hardest week to plan for if you draw a team you've never faced)?

I expound on that a little more in this thread:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2244081

but the short answer is both the impressive game 1 and the relative results of other teams in other games made the 39 point victory over Iowa impressive (ie Boston only beat them by 39 so doing as well as Boston did against Iowa is a worthy accomplishment).

Originally posted by AirMcMVP
I don't follow the West close enough to comment, but I do think your top 4 in the East WILL BE accurate at years end. The 5-8 spots are a total toss-up between 5 or 6 teams. At this point of the season, though, I think mystikalilusion's ranking is more accurate overall AT THIS TIME (outside of the Wrecking Crew being #5).

So you're saying poopoo does a better job of regurgitating the current standings? I agree, but we already have the standings. My purpose is to say WHICH TEAM IS BEST. The better team is the team that would be:
1) more likely to win a majority of the time in a current head-to-head matchup
2) is more likely to perform better against common opponents over the remainder of the season
3) is the tougher opponent regardless of record

As you noted, poopoo is not very creative and most of what he does is follows the current standings. I guess therefore you can say he generally summarizes where the standings have teams ranked currently, I mean, if you felt you needed that because for some reason you were unable to glance at the standings and see it for yourself.

I do agree I do a better job of predicting how teams will end up in the final standings, because I place the better team NOW higher in my rankings regardless of current record.

The corollary is that poopoo doesn't give people much of a clue how teams will end up in the final standings, because he places the teams with better current records higher than teams that are clearly the better team and will eventually surpass some of his high ranked teams once they've both played a full schedule.

Sly -

I enjoy your rankings much more than mystik's, but let's face it; your rankings wouldn't be as interesting without mystik. Most of my enjoyment comes from how funny you are in your posts. So I guess the challenge now should be if mystik can be just as funny?

Originally posted by salizy13
Sly I gotta say I love the rankings. I only have one question though how is Dallas ranked so low. I understand we have had a poor season to this point, but we did beat long beach. Steel city has had all cupcakes except for mighty

Actually, that game is still under protest with the league office. We dominate the whole game, and somehow give up 10 points in the last couple minutes when you couldn't score all day. Even still, we take the kickoff in OT and cram it right down you throats, only to have the computer A) not kick a gimme FG from the 10, and the B) rob us with a totally bogus fumble.

I don't consider that game a Dallas win...it was a Long Beach Non-victory....

Originally posted by salizy13
Sly I gotta say I love the rankings. I only have one question though how is Dallas ranked so low. I understand we have had a poor season to this point, but we did beat long beach. Steel city has had all cupcakes except for mighty

Thanks for the kind words and I'm happy to respond.

First, as even the respected GM from Tennessee now agrees to, the top half of the West is really tough. Dallas is currently ranked tied for 9th, but one of the big reasons is the quality of other teams.

Second, among the 3 teams I have roughly tied for 9th place, it's very hard to say Dallas is clearly better.

a) One of the teams is Big Bear, who beat Dallas by 7 in a head-to-head matchup in game 2. An even more impressive win by Big Bear was topping 8th ranked Virginia by 14 in game 3. But Big Bear also has two 20+ point defeats at the hands of mid-tier teams (at least by Western Conference standards): Saint Paul and Beantown. Also Big Bear just lost by 11 to Saginaw. Big Bear is inconsistent so it's hard to rank them better than your team, or worse, plus they beat your team head-to-head, so it's hard to say Dallas has proven itself the better team.

b) The other team is Steel City. The 1-point squeaker over Idaho 3 games ago was embarrassing, and so was their most recent game against Mighty. At the same time, Steel City beat Saginaw by 10, the same Saginaw who beat Big Bear by 11 (and Big Bear beat Dallas by 7). So it's really the victory over Saginaw that is giving Steel City credibility. As you said, they've played a lot of patsies, other than these 3 games I've already mentioned, so it's very difficult to say how good Steel City really is. Steel City's 10 point win over Saginaw was slightly more impressive (according to my current understanding of relative team strength throughout the league) than Dallas's 3 point win over Long Beach, so both your teams have a roughly equally impressive win against a higher-ranked team.

Third, Dallas is at this point pretty much a 1-trick pony, that trick being the win over Long Beach. The two wins over patsies don't do much, and the other three games were all sound defeats. The opening game loss to Louisiana State was the most humiliating, and there's been improvement since then. The game 2 loss to Big Bear is an albatross for your team right now, as mentioned already. And most recently Mentone Beach surpassed Dallas by 72. Now, admittedly, getting beat by Mentone Beach by 72 is probably a better relative showing than either of Dallas's prior losses, but it's still a lot of points to get beat by and then turn around and say "why aren't we ranked as a playoff team?" Comparatively, Mentone Beach only beat Long Beach by 50. That comparable game makes your 3 point head-to-head topping of Long Beach seem more something that would not happen a high percentage of the time if you two were to play some rematches.

I hope Dallas continues to improve - put together some more good showings and I promise you my rankings will be quick to respond!

Originally posted by Sly
Originally posted by salizy13

Sly I gotta say I love the rankings. I only have one question though how is Dallas ranked so low. I understand we have had a poor season to this point, but we did beat long beach. Steel city has had all cupcakes except for mighty

Thanks for the kind words and I'm happy to respond.

First, as even the respected GM from Tennessee now agrees to, the top half of the West is really tough. Dallas is currently ranked tied for 9th, but one of the big reasons is the quality of other teams.

Second, among the 3 teams I have roughly tied for 9th place, it's very hard to say Dallas is clearly better.

a) One of the teams is Big Bear, who beat Dallas by 7 in a head-to-head matchup in game 2. An even more impressive win by Big Bear was topping 8th ranked Virginia by 14 in game 3. But Big Bear also has two 20+ point defeats at the hands of mid-tier teams (at least by Western Conference standards): Saint Paul and Beantown. Also Big Bear just lost by 11 to Saginaw. Big Bear is inconsistent so it's hard to rank them better than your team, or worse, plus they beat your team head-to-head, so it's hard to say Dallas has proven itself the better team.

b) The other team is Steel City. The 1-point squeaker over Idaho 3 games ago was embarrassing, and so was their most recent game against Mighty. At the same time, Steel City beat Saginaw by 10, the same Saginaw who beat Big Bear by 11 (and Big Bear beat Dallas by 7). So it's really the victory over Saginaw that is giving Steel City credibility. As you said, they've played a lot of patsies, other than these 3 games I've already mentioned, so it's very difficult to say how good Steel City really is. Steel City's 10 point win over Saginaw was slightly more impressive (according to my current understanding of relative team strength throughout the league) than Dallas's 3 point win over Long Beach, so both your teams have a roughly equally impressive win against a higher-ranked team.

Third, Dallas is at this point pretty much a 1-trick pony, that trick being the win over Long Beach. The two wins over patsies don't do much, and the other three games were all sound defeats. The opening game loss to Louisiana State was the most humiliating, and there's been improvement since then. The game 2 loss to Big Bear is an albatross for your team right now, as mentioned already. And most recently Mentone Beach surpassed Dallas by 72. Now, admittedly, getting beat by Mentone Beach by 72 is probably a better relative showing than either of Dallas's prior losses, but it's still a lot of points to get beat by and then turn around and say "why aren't we ranked as a playoff team?" Comparatively, Mentone Beach only beat Long Beach by 50. That comparable game makes your 3 point head-to-head topping of Long Beach seem more something that would not happen a high percentage of the time if you two were to play some rematches.

I hope Dallas continues to improve - put together some more good showings and I promise you my rankings will be quick to respond!

LOL...I think we would have played Mentone MUCH tougher if we tried...we went 100% pass, and thats not our MO. We were just fooling around with that one. No way we woulda one, but we coulda kept well under 50...lol...

Originally posted by poopoohead
Would be interested in finding out myself (so if Sly responds, could somebody quote his answer, ).

He must think he's very clever throwing this comment out there as a way of responding to my noticing that he's beginning to copy some of my rankings. What does he think, we're six years old? So if he claims he's not reading my posts that must make it true? Next he's going to put his hands over his eyes and say, "Where has everyone gone? I can't find you!" and tell us a nice story about the tooth fairy.

Originally posted by JJsBlitz
Originally posted by salizy13

Sly I gotta say I love the rankings. I only have one question though how is Dallas ranked so low. I understand we have had a poor season to this point, but we did beat long beach. Steel city has had all cupcakes except for mighty

Actually, that game is still under protest with the league office. We dominate the whole game, and somehow give up 10 points in the last couple minutes when you couldn't score all day. Even still, we take the kickoff in OT and cram it right down you throats, only to have the computer A) not kick a gimme FG from the 10, and the B) rob us with a totally bogus fumble.

I don't consider that game a Dallas win...it was a Long Beach Non-victory....

Haha ok. It's actually your dumbass fault you didn't change to AI to kick a fieldgoal within 30 or 20 or even 10. So yeah enjoy that loss to a supposed under rated team. You lost. Get over it.

And sly thank you as that last statement cleared up alot and actually makes sense. We got jp back so I expect much better showings from our team

When the boogeyman goes to sleep each night, he checks his closet for Sly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f67LgpJBPPE

You guys didn't even see it coming.