Warrior General Games

So, my lvl 44 G is built to go up against a DT, which he is barely capable of but sometimes does OK. However, when he is faced by a 3 man front, no DT, with a blitzer coming from deep, he just stands there like a big fat sack of shit and does nothing. Look at this play, I am the LG:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292247&pbp_id=5717264

The FS just blows by him - he reacts way too late. This is not an isolated incident.

PM me for some numbers on the G if you really care about the attributes that are not working.

It is either

1) low agility - he cannot react in time to the blitz
2) low speed - no lateral movement
3) low vision - doesn't realize what is about to happen

I worry it is 3), and if so, ask:

Is it necessary to take Vis to 60?

I think a major problem is the speed of the FS. Here is how I think blocking works:

If nobody is in your range, every game tick you do a vision check to see if there is somebody to pick up
Higher vision = bigger radius of vision
Once you pick them up as a block, you react using your attributes to meet them (first step, agility, speed, quick cut)
Once you meet them, there is a pancake or reverse pancake roll based on other stuff (current velocity, weight, strength, blocking, etc., of each interacting)
Then you just continue to either hold or break the block based on the normal stuff (blocking, strength, opponent shed block, any AE etc)
If they break a block, you try to engage them again (agility, speed, etc.)



This explains a lot of things
- why low vision RGs don't go into the second tier for blocks
- why a FB might run his blocking route, but stand like a dud
- why when even if an OT engages a DE, if he breaks the block just once, the added boost gets him out of your arm range and his higher spd/agi means you'll NEVER CATCH UP TO HIM ON THE OUTSIDE after he gets by


It would also give an answer to your question, I think what happened is by the time your G saw the FS in his range, the FS was going so fast you couldn't even think about getting to him in time. You sorta went for him if you watch closely, stuttered when you missed (by a mile), and then the FS was gone and you gave up again.



So yeah, I'm afraid my answer to this question isn't simple. I think 10 more vision would give you more time to get to him (see him earlier). First step would get you moving, agility get you up to speed and speed to get in front of him. Your agility should be enough to accelerate to meet his path. I think to even hope to stop a FS going that fast from so far out, you'd need atleast 10 more vision, 10 more speed, and still hope that first step activates.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Right, Agi to 75, Vis to 60, Spd to 50.

I'm on it.

The tradeoff to having such high vision then, is that your radius gets so big you see two threats from two different directions and are stuck in the middle with no idea where to go. From an algorithmic perspective, if your circle is 5 yards big and you see the same-built LB, one on your left and one on your right, what path do you choose? you choose the middle one (i.e. don't move) because it's the only path that might stop both (rather than cutting your losses and trying to stop 1).

So don't be surprised if vision++ gets you the ability to stop that play but destroys you on a short blitz.

Hmmm, I'll train it a bit first then and have a think.

I'm sure there are possible bugs in having too high of vision, but I'm also sure Bort has many advanced logic decisions that are made to pick up a blocker. Who is closest? Path them until you engage. That'd be a relatively simple method that is probably implemented. I just can't see a game this complex getting confused on who to pick up - you might guess wrong, but I don't think you'll keep changing your mind every game-tick or something as they get closer

Originally posted by Octowned
I'm sure there are possible bugs in having too high of vision, but I'm also sure Bort has many advanced logic decisions that are made to pick up a blocker. Who is closest? Path them until you engage. That'd be a relatively simple method that is probably implemented. I just can't see a game this complex getting confused on who to pick up - you might guess wrong, but I don't think you'll keep changing your mind every game-tick or something as they get closerTrue, and if that bug happens, it's better to have that bug than to get your ass torched on every single FS blitz, so I would go with your suggestion of vision++

Originally posted by mandyross
Thanks for the detailed reply.

Right, Agi to 75, Vis to 60, Spd to 50.

I'm on it.

that's a pretty expensive adjustment, especially at level 44. I think if I were doing it, I'd do speed then agi then vis. And if it's possible, I'd try to get some of the spd or agility through eq to try it out before committing your very limited SP at this point.

one last thing, your RG picked up that SS blitz perfectly. Is there something you could learn by comparing your builds?

Originally posted by mandyross
So, my lvl 44 G is built to go up against a DT, which he is barely capable of but sometimes does OK. However, when he is faced by a 3 man front, no DT, with a blitzer coming from deep, he just stands there like a big fat sack of shit and does nothing. Look at this play, I am the LG:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292247&pbp_id=5717264

The FS just blows by him - he reacts way too late. This is not an isolated incident.

PM me for some numbers on the G if you really care about the attributes that are not working.

It is either

1) low agility - he cannot react in time to the blitz
2) low speed - no lateral movement
3) low vision - doesn't realize what is about to happen

I worry it is 3), and if so, ask:

Is it necessary to take Vis to 60?

that is kinda bunk because the R.G. picked up the S.S. what's his build look like.

It could just be a bug or bad coding.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by mandyross

So, my lvl 44 G is built to go up against a DT, which he is barely capable of but sometimes does OK. However, when he is faced by a 3 man front, no DT, with a blitzer coming from deep, he just stands there like a big fat sack of shit and does nothing. Look at this play, I am the LG:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292247&pbp_id=5717264

The FS just blows by him - he reacts way too late. This is not an isolated incident.

PM me for some numbers on the G if you really care about the attributes that are not working.

It is either

1) low agility - he cannot react in time to the blitz
2) low speed - no lateral movement
3) low vision - doesn't realize what is about to happen

I worry it is 3), and if so, ask:

Is it necessary to take Vis to 60?

that is kinda bunk because the R.G. picked up the S.S. what's his build look like.

It could just be a bug or bad coding.

We have to quit agreeing all the time. There is some kind of mechanics problem with the sim this year when it comes to LGs. I'm not sure what it is, but LGs in all leagues are getting wiped out on all sorts of strange and unlikely plays.

On the other hand if your lvl 44 and SPD is not to 50 get it there. Actually if you got AGL close to 68 get your SPD to 60. Gs need the SPD to pull, otherwise you will never get out in front of the HB. If your VIS is 48 or above I wouldn't mess with it right now if ever. Bort has stated before (it's in the Bort stalker) that they pretty much intended all players would take their SPD to about 50 at least. Think about it. The slowest players on the field IRL run 5.5 - 5.8 40's. The fastest run 4.15 - 4.4. Olineman are usually in the 4.8 - 5.3 range. Basically, just because a G is 300 lbs + they are faster and more agile than most other human beings half there size.

Originally posted by Melancholy/Underdogs
one last thing, your RG picked up that SS blitz perfectly. Is there something you could learn by comparing your builds?

Why yes there is I think. Without being specific. I hadn't noticed that.

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread.

Originally posted by mandyross
Without being specific.


doh, i was hoping to benefit from this thread as well.

:-D me too, was hoping he'd say what it was LOL

Spd

Vis

well into the 50s

like you said, really

i'd work up agility first