Warrior General Games

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=257627

This is my starting LOT, I thought he was built decent, not overly focused in any area but points in generally the right places. In my last game their RDE (only a level higher) blew right past him every single pass play. Any idea why? There seemed to be a consistently small inside step then no movement while the DE ran past for the sack, this was typical:

Game: http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=217831

Example: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=217831&pbp_id=1391460

Cheers for any help.

Do you seriously not know?

You only have 1 in Protect, and you have 30 Speed and 48 Agility.

Strength does you little to no good vs speed/agi pass rushing DEs. Protect is your version of Tunnel Vision. The DE probably had 6+ TV, while you have 1 Protect.

(goes to look for OT Building Guide, wonders if perhaps there isn't one and thats why so many OTs are struggling)

48 agility is just not anywhere close to sufficient. realize that you'll be playing against defensive ends with 80 or 90 agility and 65 or 75 speed. once you get agility to 60 raw, raise protector to 4, otherwise you've wasted all the other points in the pass blocking tree. in the meantime train speed. i'd actually train speed and agility in your case right now.

Speed seems to be a big factor this season.

I just ran an experiment after the first game when I had the same problem... I moved most of my EQ over to speed (from strength) and swapped my CE to agility and the pass tree.

Ended up at 65 strength, 64 blocking, 46 speed, 62 agility and 49 vision for the second game. I basically kept this DE totally in check.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=219756

Granted, this DE wasn't as well built as the first DE I faced, but in the play by play... my RT was clearing flying around and getting good position.

Originally posted by oronis
Do you seriously not know?

You only have 1 in Protect, and you have 30 Speed and 48 Agility.

Strength does you little to no good vs speed/agi pass rushing DEs. Protect is your version of Tunnel Vision. The DE probably had 6+ TV, while you have 1 Protect.

(goes to look for OT Building Guide, wonders if perhaps there isn't one and thats why so many OTs are struggling)

Yeah, seriously, he's been fine until this game. His str and blk aren't crazy high, I've spread around the points in his other attributes.

The OT build guide has str/blk as primaries and then agility/speed/vision and that's how I've built him. I'd need agility as high as my str is, ditto speed, that means I'd have low str/blk for his position. Surely the game isn't so shafted that OTs need to be faster than they are strong?

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
48 agility is just not anywhere close to sufficient. realize that you'll be playing against defensive ends with 80 or 90 agility and 65 or 75 speed. once you get agility to 60 raw, raise protector to 4, otherwise you've wasted all the other points in the pass blocking tree. in the meantime train speed. i'd actually train speed and agility in your case right now.

48 agility is only slightly behind his blocking, you're saying he should aim for an agility rating as high as his strength is (it would need to be higher because he'd need to have spent those points boosting Agility rather than strength).

Originally posted by HgSniper
Originally posted by oronis

Do you seriously not know?

You only have 1 in Protect, and you have 30 Speed and 48 Agility.

Strength does you little to no good vs speed/agi pass rushing DEs. Protect is your version of Tunnel Vision. The DE probably had 6+ TV, while you have 1 Protect.

(goes to look for OT Building Guide, wonders if perhaps there isn't one and thats why so many OTs are struggling)

Yeah, seriously, he's been fine until this game. His str and blk aren't crazy high, I've spread around the points in his other attributes.

The OT build guide has str/blk as primaries and then agility/speed/vision and that's how I've built him. I'd need agility as high as my str is, ditto speed, that means I'd have low str/blk for his position. Surely the game isn't so shafted that OTs need to be faster than they are strong?

I wouldn't say that, but why would you put a big slow guy up against an agile, fast guy like some of the best pass-rushers in the NFL? If your OT can't move almost as quick as the DE, he's not going to be able to engage his block and he's going to get beat. I don't see why that should be such a hard realization for most people.

This isn't like greco-roman wrestling where you start grappled.

Originally posted by oronis
I wouldn't say that, but why would you put a big slow guy up against an agile, fast guy like some of the best pass-rushers in the NFL? If your OT can't move almost as quick as the DE, he's not going to be able to engage his block and he's going to get beat. I don't see why that should be such a hard realization for most people.

Fair comment, but if the DE's at my level are having speed/agility in the ranges talked about above then they're as quick/agile as corners and they should be getting wiped out every time the lineman blocks them. There's a reason why the DE's in the NFL are big and strong as well as quick.

Your build is actually decent - it is very balanced. There is no reason for people to say "omg low speed and agility" when you also have low strength and blocking. 38 spd 58 agi is fine for your level. Well... sorta..

your biggest problem is the ridiculously high stamina, vision and confidence, as well as a slew of SAs that are probably doing nothing for your build right now. You went up against a great level 27 DE, and you're performing like a well built level 22 OT. Add in the fact that DE's have an inherent advantage over OTs due to natural level gains being a) the worst in the game, for OTs and b) the best in the game, for DEs, and you're simply outmatched.

Continue to work on strength, blk, spd, agi exclusively in the same ratio as you have been, then think about getting "protect" up in your mid level 30s. You wont be having problems, then.

Originally posted by HgSniper
Originally posted by oronis

I wouldn't say that, but why would you put a big slow guy up against an agile, fast guy like some of the best pass-rushers in the NFL? If your OT can't move almost as quick as the DE, he's not going to be able to engage his block and he's going to get beat. I don't see why that should be such a hard realization for most people.

Fair comment, but if the DE's at my level are having speed/agility in the ranges talked about above then they're as quick/agile as corners and they should be getting wiped out every time the lineman blocks them. There's a reason why the DE's in the NFL are big and strong as well as quick.

That's a discussion for the Suggestions forums...like "I suggest OTs vs DEs be re-evaluated so the formulas encourage more realistic builds", followed by your supporting argument and some suggestions.

Your question was 'how to recover' from your OT getting beat. The answer is speed, agility, and Protect for LOTs. It's that simple.

P.S. There is also a 'Free-for-all' forum if you don't actually want to make constructive criticism of this game, and just want to complain.

Originally posted by Octowned
Your build is actually decent - it is very balanced. There is no reason for people to say "omg low speed and agility" when you also have low strength and blocking. 38 spd 58 agi is fine for your level. Well... sorta..

your biggest problem is the ridiculously high stamina, vision and confidence, as well as a slew of SAs that are probably doing nothing for your build right now. You went up against a great level 27 DE, and you're performing like a well built level 22 OT. Add in the fact that DE's have an inherent advantage over OTs due to natural level gains being a) the worst in the game, for OTs and b) the best in the game, for DEs, and you're simply outmatched.

Continue to work on strength, blk, spd, agi exclusively in the same ratio as you have been, then think about getting "protect" up in your mid level 30s. You wont be having problems, then.

Thanks, the confidence levelling was a misunderstanding about it's importance Vision is one of the OT's secondary attributes and I thought it was key in picking up blocks, looks like it's less useful than I had imagined.

Originally posted by oronis
That's a discussion for the Suggestions forums...like "I suggest OTs vs DEs be re-evaluated so the formulas encourage more realistic builds", followed by your supporting argument and some suggestions.

Your question was 'how to recover' from your OT getting beat. The answer is speed, agility, and Protect for LOTs. It's that simple.

That's definetly coming across

Originally posted by oronis
P.S. There is also a 'Free-for-all' forum if you don't actually want to make constructive criticism of this game, and just want to complain.

Nah, I'm more interested in doing something about the builds where I can. Yes it does seem that the DE's don't seem to need to follow the real-world mould but just bitchin about it won't change that.

You have to think about it in terms of the reality of the game. Real life or what you think "should be" has ZERO impact.

DEs have an agility bonus over OTs and the way agility works as a pass rusher is that you're either getting by completely untouched, or you're blocked for some period of time until you can shed the block.

The getting around untouched part is key. The fact that strength has no bearing on plays where that happens means that agility, not strength, is the primary attribute for tackles. Even if a DE were to bull rush and overpower a tackle due to higher strength, there would still be some delay in time to the QB, on a short to medium pass possibly long enough to get the pass off.

So for a tackle, the primary attribute, which dictates whether you can get in front of the end to even attempt to block him, is agility.

Secondary is strength. With too low strength you simply get run over and the delay is almost nothing.

Third are blocking and speed. Both dictate to some degree the effectiveness of the first two attributes. With too low speed, all the agility in the world won't get you to the correct spot on time. Likewise, with too low blocking, you'll get beat on every play, albeit it may take some time. However, the thing that is important here, is that these are like "bonus" attributes. They aren't "necessary", rather they're the difference between "good enough" and "great", and they ONLY have impact when agility and strength are high. A tackle with 60 strength and agility, and 40 speed and blocking, is going to be better - significantly better - than a tackle with 60 strength and blocking, and 40 speed and agility. That's because every time you go up against a quick pass rusher, you'll get destroyed and that can completely obliterate your game plan.

Thanks, getting the "ideal" image of a tackle or DE out of my head is probably the key issue.

Originally posted by HgSniper
Originally posted by oronis

Do you seriously not know?

You only have 1 in Protect, and you have 30 Speed and 48 Agility.

Strength does you little to no good vs speed/agi pass rushing DEs. Protect is your version of Tunnel Vision. The DE probably had 6+ TV, while you have 1 Protect.

(goes to look for OT Building Guide, wonders if perhaps there isn't one and thats why so many OTs are struggling)

Yeah, seriously, he's been fine until this game. His str and blk aren't crazy high, I've spread around the points in his other attributes.

The OT build guide has str/blk as primaries and then agility/speed/vision and that's how I've built him. I'd need agility as high as my str is, ditto speed, that means I'd have low str/blk for his position. Surely the game isn't so shafted that OTs need to be faster than they are strong?

Absolutly. Most good speed rushing ends have low str. you don't need 90 str to handle 40. o.t's need massive amounts of agility.