Warrior General Games

Just doing some work with my dots and noticed the differences between my .4 ALG WR and my .5 ALG TE. It made me wonder... did the changes made for WR's make TE's obsolete? I am seriously considering having extra WR's... specifically Power WR's... and if I really need a TE I can use them instead. Or I can have extra STOP FB's and STOP TE's and use those instead of BTE's... or just put another speed WR in at TE if I want receptions. I mean, WR's and TE's use to be the same so this thought never had any major value... but now... .4 vs .5? I can see a legitimate argument for not building TE's anymore (or building them a lot less).
Thoughts?

WR in at TE?

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Just doing some work with my dots and noticed the differences between my .4 ALG WR and my .5 ALG TE. It made me wonder... did the changes made for WR's make TE's obsolete? I am seriously considering having extra WR's... specifically Power WR's... and if I really need a TE I can use them instead. Or I can have extra STOP FB's and STOP TE's and use those instead of BTE's... or just put another speed WR in at TE if I want receptions. I mean, WR's and TE's use to be the same so this thought never had any major value... but now... .4 vs .5? I can see a legitimate argument for not building TE's anymore (or building them a lot less).
Thoughts?


Was a common ruse to use WRs at rTE slot to mess up tagging systems til d co-ords started tagging them... Maybe okay for long pass plays but good rTEs usually need 50 + STR to be effective against some of those HHLBs sitting in Mid zones . Youd end up building them as WRs who play TE so build would have to be jiggled with and they would also suffer OOP

The OoP would kill any perceived advantage with interest on top. Losing around 5% across the board, big no for me.

The oopp for FB/TE swaps is supposed to be negligible, fwiw.
Almost the same ALGs.
Green SAs are comparable.

I can't seem to find the sheet Lone Star Merc did way back in the days of the Iron Man leagues, if I manage to dig it up I'll repost it.

But he had gone through most of the possible permutations of subs, using speed scout on breakaway plays to monitor the speed loss vs in their natural position. I do remember the most "lenient" OoP penalty started at 5%, so have to agree with Brew here.

If my memory is right, they went up in +2.5% notches, the further away Bort deemed the substitution from the base position. I also seem to remember the opposing defender slot typically, at a relatively low %. Like TE <-> LB was one of the better IronMan swaps, and CB <-> WR, you took a lot less of a hit with those, around 10% or so, where most O <-> D subs, were more like 20-25% hits semi-crippling the player ...

I often make use of FB <-> TE on things like goal line blocking, but it does seem pretty noticeable the drop off shoving a scat in at rTE vs their normal spot, and vice versa. If you're shoving a bFB in at GL TE3, and they're running outside blocker VA, you're really not going to *feel* the drop off, since they'll typically be flying around at warp speed anyways.

I've used rTEs at scat FB at times, due to a team not running a sFB on the roster. I'm not a fan, it feels like the penalty is ... not negligible to me.

I do think the spdWR SA tree is a decent upgrade over the recTE one however, just going by pretty much every elite recTE having 2 of 3, if not 3 of 3 of (Juke, Catch Fake, First Step) added, and WRs not having to dip that heavily to make a cohesive build. But not enough for me, to outweigh the OoP.

YMMV, good discussion though.

Originally posted by Chris B Chicken
The oopp for FB/TE swaps is supposed to be negligible, fwiw.
Almost the same ALGs.
Green SAs are comparable.

Yeah. FB at TE seems to almost be no penalty even though I am sure there is one. And people use TE's at WR all the time (as do I) and they work fine as receivers or blockers so I suspect the penalty isn't horrible for swapping those positions either. I have used a Power WR build (and STOP build) at TE before and it never caused any performance issues. Another thing you can do (and I have) is play an OT at TE for an extra blocker and that worked very well. That's why I wondered (and still do) if TE's are really completely necessary. I suppose I'll find out soon enough when teams reboot.

I'll even go farther and say I've learned, through experimentation, that a WR does well at HB if you need a scat HB and don't have one... and the same for a RTE at FB... but not RTE at HB or WR at FB. Through playing I've seen enough to know the penalty must be increased for those 2nd sets of oop's. One way or another... on offense... I have tried just about every single OOP there is and you can TELL when it's too far away from their original position and the penalty really effects them. Mostly, if it makes sense then they play well. WR's can swap for TE's and vise versa. I've played Scat FB's at TE and Scat HB's at Wr and they've been pretty much unaffected. I've had to use Centers at Guard... Guards at Center... Guards at Tackle... Tackles at Guards... and Tackles at TE. One I've never done is a BTE at Tackle. I always thought that might not work. HB's at QB... FB's at HB... yes, there's a penalty, but if it's minimal you won't notice the difference. It's when it's too much a stretch... too far away from their original position or too different than their skill set... you'll know it. They'll be slow to react... lost on their jobs... stuff like that. I will say some mistakes have had happy outcomes! Had a OT playing at TE for an extra blocker and messed up the package settings so he was in on a pass play... running routes... and making catches because nobody covered him. SlooOOOOoooow... but a good laugh.

Just say no to OOP unless you absolutely have to. There;s pleanty of other real advantages to be working on than messing with OOP, especially against DC's that are any good.