Warrior General Games

If you get tackled by a 350 pound guy, it doesn't matter if he's great at it or terrible at it, he's still got a little advantage by being 350 pounds, right?

Plus, when people create STOPs, they should get the associated bonus/penalty on both blocking and tackling, since they might want the STOP to do both.

PLUS plus, as it is now, kickers and punters get somewhat haphazardly assigned to where I think Kickers get the bonus to blocking, and Punters to tackling, when kickers are literally the least likely dots to ever block someone, both in GLB and real life.

So, let's make it easy, just give all dots the weight-based bonus/penalty to Blocking and Tackling the same way all dots get those applied for Speed, Strength, Vision, etc.

Unless you've seen or heard something I haven't, Sluggy, I believe weight applies to ALL forms of outcomes. BLocking and tackling as well as pancakes, revcakes, and agility rolls. Probably even Jumping too. (Fat can't fly high).

I should have been even more specific than I was, I guess. When I was working on the VPB update, I saw that offensive players get up to a +2 bonus to their Blocking skill if they are the heaviest weight at their archetype, down to -2 if they are the lightest weight for their archetype. Exactly the way that any player gets plus 2 to Vision at creation for being the tallest for their archetype, etc.

But the initial bonus or penalty to Blocking and Tackling are restricted to positions that are classified as offense or defense, respectively, and I understand the tendency to do that, but it leads to the seeming inconsistencies that I detailed above.

what? Have no clue what you're saying! you're talking like Theo in this post....

Originally posted by slughead42
I should have been even more specific than I was, I guess. When I was working on the VPB update, I saw that offensive players get up to a +2 bonus to their Blocking skill if they are the heaviest weight at their archetype, down to -2 if they are the lightest weight for their archetype. Exactly the way that any player gets plus 2 to Vision at creation for being the tallest for their archetype, etc.

But the initial bonus or penalty to Blocking and Tackling are restricted to positions that are classified as offense or defense, respectively, and I understand the tendency to do that, but it leads to the seeming inconsistencies that I detailed above.

Ah! You're talking creation. (Keep up Ken... we're onto something here! )

Mind if I kinda counter-argue this idea?

So, as I came to understand it, the +/- ?# that's based off of height and weight settings actually made perfect sense to me... mostly. I hear you about punters and kickers... and I might even make a small argument to include QB's in there as well (what a blocking machine they are! ).
But the +/- ?# is literally tied straight into the NATURAL skills for which they (height/weight) would have the most effect on a player. I mean, sure... you could be 5'8" and 175 lbs and have a blocking skill of 100 and a strength of 150 and you would still get shoved about like a blocking sled. Ever see a real short skinny dude go up against a Sumo Wrestler? Never ends well for the little guy.
Height (or lack thereof) gives a dot vision (+/-) bonus and leverage bonus and balance bonus. Those last 2 exist even though they're not listed in the bonus section. And Weight (or lack thereof) effects stamina and speed for sure.
However... I'm not 100% sold on how it helps the blocking SKILL. Did Bort think just because you weigh 350 that that makes you a quality blocker? Sure... big men usually do the blocking but just because you're big doesn't mean you're automatically good at it. Blocking is a LEARNED (or taught) skill.
Speed and agility are inherited. They can be improved, but I've yet to see a 300 pound Barry Sanders... or a 175 pound O-lineman.
Strength and Balance are both effected by height and weight so they can also be included.
Vision makes sense when you consider tall people can just see more things among the trees than short people buried in the bush.
But Blocking and Tackling should not be tied to height and weight, IMHO. That's where you and I would differ here. I would remove it completely instead of add it across the board to solve the issue. Replace it with skills that are much more weight/height based instead. My 2 centavos.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
But Blocking and Tackling should not be tied to height and weight, IMHO. That's where you and I would differ here. I would remove it completely instead of add it across the board to solve the issue.


I would be equally down with that way of dealing with it, I just think it's dumb to have it act like it's a "bonus" at creation to only one type of dot. I understand why it was done from a game play/customization type-thing, but the lore of it is dumb and counter-intuitive.

I wouldn't have given a shit about it at all, probably, except when reworking the VPB I found out that it was being done backwards in the VPB, and I'm too dumb to be able to fix it yet, so it irritates me now in general.

Originally posted by slughead42
I would be equally down with that way of dealing with it, I just think it's dumb to have it act like it's a "bonus" at creation to only one type of dot. I understand why it was done from a game play/customization type-thing, but the lore of it is dumb and counter-intuitive.

I wouldn't have given a shit about it at all, probably, except when reworking the VPB I found out that it was being done backwards in the VPB, and I'm too dumb to be able to fix it yet, so it irritates me now in general.

I finally figured out how to fix it in the VPB, BTW, so there's that, but I haven't yet, b/c there have already been like 50 published versions of my updated VPB and I know everyone's sick of it.

But, after we actually get our hands on the new build process and/or Bort publishes posts with the exhaustive details as they will actually be rolled out, then I'm going to have another update.

Fwiw Slug, the starting +2/-2 attribute stuff is basically irrelevant compared to the entire scope of a build. At best it lets you get 0.5 more SP value by hitting the soft-cap 1 level quicker.

So many players incorrectly make HUGE mistakes on HT/WT since they are singularly focused on the near worthless +2. The number of 5'8 WR's that existed made me want to die.

The actual height/weight has way more effect on the sim itself. You are of course a legend, but if lets say Bort actually implemented 5 suggestions, I would be saddened if this was one of them since it is not very useful or good or important or fun or interesting.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Fwiw Slug, the starting +2/-2 attribute stuff is basically irrelevant compared to the entire scope of a build. At best it lets you get 0.5 more SP value by hitting the soft-cap 1 level quicker.

So many players incorrectly make HUGE mistakes on HT/WT since they are singularly focused on the near worthless +2. The number of 5'8 WR's that existed made me want to die.

The actual height/weight has way more effect on the sim itself. You are of course a legend, but if lets say Bort actually implemented 5 suggestions, I would be saddened if this was one of them since it is not very useful or good or important or fun or interesting.

+1

the +/- is only at creation and means nothing at the end build