Warrior General Games

How much of a penalty is it? Currently have a speed WR with Possession WR ability tree equipment option. Should I just get new eq or stick to the plan of adding an SP or two to jump catch and dive catch. Penalty is in R route and sticky

So... two things. #1, and most important, is those pieces aren't worth getting even if they were IN your SA Tree. They're the lowest value SA's when it comes to having to pay for them outright (meaning if you were building AEQ they would cost you the least in BT's). #2 is plenty of people get those two penalized SA's on their Speed builds. But you need to know that, the higher you take them, the less gain you get for SP spent. I'll try to give an example but know this is just a guess as to the actual penalty numbers.

Sticky Hands. Level 1, with penalty, adds .75 improvement. Level 2 adds .50. Level 3 adds .33. Level 4 adds .19. Level 5 adds .9. Level 6 adds .525. Level 7 adds .333. Level 8 adds .1 Level 9 adds .027. Level 10 adds .009...

In other words, you get less and less bonus for more and more SP's spent. (Diminishing returns, Bort calls them.)

But plenty of people do put some points into them because they still help. But as AEQ goes, no... they're not good things to get.

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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
So... two things. #1, and most important, is those pieces aren't worth getting even if they were IN your SA Tree. They're the lowest value SA's when it comes to having to pay for them outright (meaning if you were building AEQ they would cost you the least in BT's). #2 is plenty of people get those two penalized SA's on their Speed builds. But you need to know that, the higher you take them, the less gain you get for SP spent. I'll try to give an example but know this is just a guess as to the actual penalty numbers.

Sticky Hands. Level 1, with penalty, adds .75 improvement. Level 2 adds .50. Level 3 adds .33. Level 4 adds .19. Level 5 adds .9. Level 6 adds .525. Level 7 adds .333. Level 8 adds .1 Level 9 adds .027. Level 10 adds .009...

In other words, you get less and less bonus for more and more SP's spent. (Diminishing returns, Bort calls them.)

But plenty of people do put some points into them because they still help. But as AEQ goes, no... they're not good things to get.

Theo... You are incorrect my friend. SA's don't give diminishing returns, point 1 to 10 do the same thing. I so in your example each point adds 0.75.

The diminishing returns come from the fact that every 2 points in the SA costs more sp's....

OP I don't care much about the equipment either way, I depends how you want to build receivers. Fwiw I generally recommend high route run on speed receivers at this point despite the penalty.

I recommend creative route running with high fake chance AEQ (pass/juke/score is my moto).

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Theo... You are incorrect my friend. SA's don't give diminishing returns, point 1 to 10 do the same thing. I so in your example each point adds 0.75.

The diminishing returns come from the fact that every 2 points in the SA costs more sp's....

OP I don't care much about the equipment either way, I depends how you want to build receivers. Fwiw I generally recommend high route run on speed receivers at this point despite the penalty.


I wouldn't be so sure. I mean, Bort loves penalizing stuff. Consider stacking penalties, for example. I would not be surprised at all if the more you put into an SA, the less bonus you get per level. Unless you have a Bort statement to the opposite effect... in which case I easily defer and apologize.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I wouldn't be so sure. I mean, Bort loves penalizing stuff. Consider stacking penalties, for example. I would not be surprised at all if the more you put into an SA, the less bonus you get per level. Unless you have a Bort statement to the opposite effect... in which case I easily defer and apologize.

I don't hunt Bort quotes, but he has been very clear that...

1. Every point in an attribute does the same thing (20 vs 21 is the same as 150 vs 151).
2. Every point in an SA up to 11 does the same thing. At 12+ you get decreasing effect per point.
3. SA Bonus/Penalty is a +% bonus or -% penalty, which we do not know the % or if it varies by SA.