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Theo Wizzago
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No, not defenses... we're talkin AEQ and build thoughts here. There are those that are 4 AEQ builders and those that are 3 AEQ builders... and plenty that have either done, do, or have tried both ways (raises hand). I got to thinking about the true differences and it really boils down to this;
Excluding whatever bonus you get with the 4th piece (which runs the gamut so no sense in trying to argue apples and oranges... let's just all agree getting the extra 'bonus' is a good thing to some degree.) the overall tangible gain you get is the extra training of your secondary skills VS the +3 you get to your Primary skill. 420 (maximum #) BT's VS the extra days you can stay with multi-training because you don't need those BT's.
MY question is this because, in truth, I couldn't tell you one way or another, despite doing this for a long time myself, which produces a better end result... if any difference at all. So... to all those better builders than I out there who might have just done a lot more in-depth study of this, I pose the question... 4 or 3 AEQ build style?

(Please realize I do know some archetypes virtually DEMAND a 4 AEQ build while others might not. Thanks in advance.)


 
reddogrw
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the builds where having 4 AE + CE in +% is where it matters

+ SA can be accomplished with SP

or when the primary attribute being +3 higher with the 4th AE

ultimately, that's what should drive the decision
 
TJ Spikes
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3 is almost always better

the only time it's not,
#1 is when that 4th piece of % gear is needed, or
#2 in an extreme build where the extra +3 comes in handy, like a 110+ natural speed WR or the like

the difference between 1600+ BTs and 1200+ BTs is really huge when the difference in training is 3 SPs per day (multi vs light)

on top of that, straight up building 3 AEQ is easy, but when you go for 4 you usually have to rely on luck in the store, and you can end up having to settle for pieces that aren't the best they could be.

If you can multi-train longer you can usually squeak out (roughly) a +1 to your 3 attributes, instead of the +3 to one attribute that AEQ provides

 
Sonic
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
3 is almost always better


Completely disagree. 4 can be just as dominant as 3. Takes planning to build a team for specific O/D/STís, which is no different with 3 AEQ as it is for 4. The history of WL shows this. And Casual Pro even.

Edited by Sonic on Jan 18, 2020 00:27:40
Edited by Sonic on Jan 17, 2020 22:31:35
 
Theo Wizzago
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Maybe this will help.
This all came about with a punter build where I decided to go for 4 AEQ simply for the sole reason of getting the +3 bonus to the primary skill. Getting 3 AEQ was easy because I knew exactly what 3 bonuses I wanted. However, when I built the 4th piece (I almost always build the 4th piece unless I get SUPER lucky and nail exactly what I need on my one time only shopping for it routine), I ended up doing a 5% make tackle piece. I already had exactly what I wanted with 3 SA boosts and I wanted the +3 to punting so I built a 4th piece. Plenty of people thought I wasted time going for the 5% MT but the only reason I did was because I didn't see anything else I really wanted/needed for the punter and why not go for something that might be useful? In the end, I just wanted the +3 to the skill more than anything.

All of that got me to thinking about the 4th AEQ piece. For some positions/archetypes, it's a must. For others it's a choice and it was that choice, along with the desire for going for the +3 more to the primary skill... VS needing all the extra BT's to fill out the 4th piece, that brought about this post/thread.
I'm not arguing against anything here... I know when I need to do 4 AEQ and when it's a choice. My thoughts are about going for the +3 more to the primary skill and, is that worth losing the extra training you can do longer because you don't need the extra BT's. That's the whole question. Do you lose... or gain... by going for that extra +3? Secondary skills are very important and can make or break many dots. The longer you can train them up, the better... but the primary skill is also very important so is the +3 (to the primary) more important... or is the extra training (to the secondary skills)?

Hope that helps clear up the question.
 
Theo Wizzago
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OH... also, to TJ, I don't get the 3 BT difference you referenced in your post. I always had it down (in my notes) as this;

Multi-training (4-way) gets you 12 BT's over a 4 day span.
Light Training gets you 24 BT's over the same 4 days. (12 extra BT's)
Normal gets you 16 BT's over the same 4 days. (4 extra BT's)
Intense gets you 8 BT's over the same 4 days. (4 less BT's)

The BIG benefit of multi-training is the huge boost you get to training (it's virtually the same as intense training) to 4 skills at the same time. The sooner you turn that off to light train for BT's is the less time you can train up your secondary skills in that way. That's my conundrum.
 
Theo Wizzago
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(just realized the 3 per day reference. Jeeze... dummy me.)
 
thermon
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago


Hope that helps clear up the question.

Clear as mud

So there's roughly 14 four-way training sessions in a season.

You'll probably see somewhere around 4% to 8% to each attribute, per 4-way.

So that would be 56% to 112% per attribute for a season's worth of 4-way.

Depending on BT needs, you can probably go 2 full seasons extra on 4-way instead of stepping down to light. Usually you have to switch to Light around age 160.

Imo, it comes down to how much value the other attributes have in your particular build. Are three +1s better or worse than one +3?

There's just too many variables is build styles and goals.

All I can say is, that if some random jackwagon asked me if he should do a 3 or 4 build, I'd tell him 3.

For the record, I've got a pretty good QB with 4, and 2 other builds in progress with 3.
Edited by thermon on Jan 18, 2020 09:08:25
 
ProfessionalKop
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i always do 4 cuz i like the % gear.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Thanks thermon. Much appreciated. That gives me some numbers to ponder for sure.
 
zz man
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I almost exclusively go 3 pieces

I dont shop cos a) Im unlucky and b) its hard to shoplift anything decent

For me this makes it easier to plan out the build and also allows me to use more BTs for enhancement , So if I want extra in a Primary I star the shit out of it and keep it in thru-out training .
 
ewinter43
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I started going for 4 pieces in my builds at my last team reset and I think I'm going to switch back to 3. Just seems my dots are worse than they were and my dots were bad enough before.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Well, some dots can go for four but don't have to. (Kickers, Punters, some specialty dots, ect, ect...)

Some must go for four because they really need to. (QB's come to my mind for sure)

And some dots should go for four but can get by with three. (As long as they have CEQ.)

My issue was with the +3 to the skill and balancing that against the extra (multi & intense) training you can do because you don't need as many BT's for a 3 AEQ dot. I just wasn't sure you really got enough gain (or not) from the extra training to make it worth it.

I've been working on my own build guide (yeah... I know... lots out there but I think this one is a bit different) based on both the importance of AEQ and BT gathering as much as just ALG's and all that stuff we all know by heart. I've been doing things a bit differently based on those thoughts and I'm still fleshing out the rough spots. Knowing the benefits or lack thereof about the +3 more to the skill a 4th AEQ brings is a missing piece I'm trying to resolve. Like everyone else posting here, I'm well aware of the benefits of quality bonus's to AEQ whether that's a 5% bit or an important SA. That's a given to me. If the dot needs it, then it needs to be able to get it... and if you gotta have it then it would be awesome to have the best way to go about it available.

Of all my 'dot failures' over the years... matching up the need for high skills with the need for BT's to have quality AEQ (reason there's even an argument about 3 AEQ vs 4 AEQ) has bitten me in my ass enough times I decided to knuckle down and try and figure something different out. I've used about every guide there is and they all work well... just not always and not as well as I believe they could. As to what's missing, that's what I'm grinding on. I've got a good idea... I'm just doing my research to make sure.
 
Sonic
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I just wasn't sure you really got enough gain (or not) from the extra training to make it worth it.


I've seen a team dominate with every build having 4 AEQ as much as I've seen a team have almost every build have 3 AEQ.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
If the dot needs it, then it needs to be able to get it... and if you gotta have it then it would be awesome to have the best way to go about it available. :


This is what all of your questions boil down to: what do you need to sacrifice to make the 4th AEQ happen, in a way that doesn't undermine the build? Answer that and there's your answer. Usually it means that you have a point less here and there to get the requisite BT's. Plus the boredom of light training for that long O_o
 
RyanCane26
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The best team record wise in WL looks primarily 4aeq fwiw
 
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