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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > hang time SA vs distance/hang time slider
Theo Wizzago
Originally posted by .spider.
I do think Catch one time said anything over 13-14 is essentially worthless. I usually do 20 in a K or P SA as there's not much else to do with them.

I agree... sort of. For me it's not worthless... it's worth LESS. With about everything in the dot building program Bort and company put in plenty of 'diminishing returns on investment'. Whether that is SA's or Skills or AEQ stacking or whatever, the cost to increase goes up while the bonus of the effect diminishes. Not the OVERALL bonus but the compiled bonus. To me, nothing shows that more clearly than the stacking issue. One 5% piece gets you a 15% bonus. 2 pieces does NOT get you 30%... but it's still a good gain in the %. 3 pieces gets you even LESS added bonus. Yes, you still get an added bonus but you're now spending a lot of BT's on a 3rd piece (unless using CEQ which a lot of people do) and getting a LOT less value for the BT's spent. You can get a 4th piece... even add on your CEQ as a 5th piece. Each time you get less and less bonus added on but the cost remains the same. Not only that but if you put all your AEQ + your CEQ too into one single bonus (or even a SA) then you get no other bonuses (or SA's) to help the build. Example; your QB has 5 pieces of 5% pass quality... but no Pass distance or anything else he could use. To me, that's a waste.
I suspect every builder has tried different things (as I have) to see if an edge can be gained somewhere... and that every builder has made up their own mind as to exactly where their "line" is for not going overboard on something. For me that's only having 2 AEQ assigned to any 5% bonus... if I need more I use CEQ... and when it comes to SA's I'd rather have several at 10 than one at twenty and the rest bare minimums. There could be a few exceptions out there... dot's that really have only one use and therefore only need one Bonus or SA to do their job. But most dot's need total quality in the build and that's where my idea of 'worthless' comes from... when I've buggered the build chasing something crazy so that now the dot simply isn't as useful as it could have been.
Guppy, Inc
it's only been a quarter of a season, but it sure looks like the hang time SA s completely worthless unless you want every punt to be short. since i made the change to both my punters, their averages have gone up, with no real concern about hang time. i've also been tracking some other punters with only 1-2 in hang time, and they are doing just fine on distance and their hang times are acceptable for the distance of each punt. I'm guessing that most of us were trying to combine hang time with distance, and I just dont see the evidence that that works at all. much better to use the slider to control hang time if you think a certain game with need shorter/higher punts. while still not perfect, it does seem to work better than having no control via the hang time SA.

so from now on, i'll be recommending that hang time is 0, going so far as to say to save the CE cost of adding the punting tree. you can get to 16 big boot, and 12 calm nerves just from the 4 AEQs + CE, and still be able to add a few more cheaply to calm nerves if you want. heck, you can go with 3 AEQ and still get to 12 calm nerves for a measly 12 SP, with only 1 AEQ in CN. and the 300 saved BTs could be converted into 20 SPs even if you went that route. but i'm thinking the extra training time would be most efficient.

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