Warrior General Games

what's a good advance equipment roll for a kicker?

I am certainly no expert, but in my opinion :

Best would be +3 kicking with something on the end of their SA tree (automatic or big boot) (88 BT value)

+3 kicking by itself would be next (50 BT value)

And then either automatic or big boot if you can get them at a discount as they cost 38 BT's to buy flat out.

In general Kicker AEQ is pretty cheap to build from scratch as you don't need to spend 75 BT's on anything, so not as much value in shopping for AEQ, but you can get lucky sometimes too to save a few BT's.

Yeah kickers are easy. Just do a regular 3 AEQ training regimen. Buy 2 pieces of Automatic. Then buy 1 piece of BB.

Then your SA spending is 2-4-0 and every other SP goes into attributes. Your attributes will be higher, and you won't need to blow any excess flex on SA stuff either.

Also not an expert but I'm taking advice from long ago and using it on mine. AEQ being; +3 kicking (or strength... but only ONE of your AEQ can be strength skill and you would prefer all to be kicking skill) with Big Boot... then +3 kicking with Automatic... then +3 kicking with 1st step. Reason? Was told it really helped avoid blocked FG tries. Besides... the alternatives are Break Block, Diving Tackle, or the other kicking tree SA. :shrug:

Kicker is different from just about every other position because people build without any regards to actual on field performance. there's lots of wrong answers but really only 1 right answer. you use EQ/AEQ to fill in wherever your build is lacking. i have no idea why people drive up strength so high when it only takes about 90 w/o any big boot/booming kick to make 65y FG or TBs. the more BK/BB that you have you need even less strength. when it comes to accuracy, there are only 3 attributes that specifically mention accuracy and 2 of those are usually lacking on most kickers. confidence is almost always overkilled, but it only comes into play for "pressure situations". i say these things not only from coaching dozens of kicker MVPs but I put it into practice with a 1-time pro/3-time WL MVP, and 4 seasons into DECLINE, he won his last MVP by hitting 100% from 49 and under and still hitting 30% over that.

you only need 160 in kicking, upper 80s in strength and confidence, mid 30s for stamina, agility should be up around 70 and vision as close to 100 as you can get. i dont put anything into jumping, and only enough speed to get KOs around the GL.

the longest FG i've ever seen in GLB is 67 and this build can do that and there's no reason to try to build a 80yard FG kicker.. it'll also give the owner/oc confidence in letting kickers try from 50+. i dont generally recommend trying from 60+ unless there's no other good choice, and a miss doesnt cost the game. I also only want TBs to be around 25%, because I have full confidence in my ability to have great coverage teams. I also recommend playing days 200-280 on CPU teams. that will show what their long abilities are, while still having build left to make adjustments. regpro and pro even have some decent MVP eq.

this all depends on on the kicker wanting to be on a high level pro or wl team at plateau.

Will add one last thought to all this. If you can, I think it's actually smart to go for the 4 AEQ build even with a Kicker (or punter). What you get, if done smartly, is +3 more to kicking. If I could get this lucky a perfect AEQ for a kicker (IMO) would be this;

+3 to kicking & Automatic.
+3 to kicking & Big Boot.
+3 to kicking & Calm Nerves.
+3 to kicking & either BB, Diving tackle, or 1st step. 1st step would be the cheapest and probably more useful (again, IMO... this is old advice I had written down from way back when).

You'll not spend nearly as much BT's on AEQ as most dots since you're not really going for the high cost bonuses... and the extra AEQ adds 3 more to your kicking.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Will add one last thought to all this. If you can, I think it's actually smart to go for the 4 AEQ build even with a Kicker (or punter). What you get, if done smartly, is +3 more to kicking. If I could get this lucky a perfect AEQ for a kicker (IMO) would be this;

+3 to kicking & Automatic.
+3 to kicking & Big Boot.
+3 to kicking & Calm Nerves.
+3 to kicking & either BB, Diving tackle, or 1st step. 1st step would be the cheapest and probably more useful (again, IMO... this is old advice I had written down from way back when).

You'll not spend nearly as much BT's on AEQ as most dots since you're not really going for the high cost bonuses... and the extra AEQ adds 3 more to your kicking.

i agree that punters and kickers can easily get 4 AEQ, even via shopping. there is ZERO reason for either to ever use any SA other the the 3 they have access too. i know from 1st hand experience that 1st step actually negatively affects accuracy, and it's idiotic to waste a SA on avoiding a blocked kick which most kickers will never have occur in their careers. a kicker's job is not to make tackles, so again, idiotic to waste SAs for something they will never use at the higher competitive levels. every time you waste pushing something useless, thats a lost opportunity to gain something useful.

please stop giving bad advice just because someone else gave you that bad advice. if you are going to give advice, be able to back it up with replays, otherwise you are just spreading bad advice. and by replays, that means a LOT of them, not just 1 or 2.

Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
if you are going to give advice, be able to back it up with replays, otherwise you are just spreading bad advice. and by replays, that means a LOT of them, not just 1 or 2.

*Tells ppl to include replays when giving advice*

*doesn't use a single replay to back up his advice*


god bless the USA

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
*Tells ppl to include replays when giving advice*

*doesn't use a single replay to back up his advice*

1st, i said "be able to back it up with replays", i didnt say they have to be put in the forums. I can back up every claim I make, and have done so repeatedly, when people have asked, and will continue to do so in the future. Theo makes claims with zero on field evidence to support his claims.

i've done pro/WL ST since they were created and I learn by example from hundreds of players, not by what people tell me, or purely guessing. If It sounds interesting, I'll either test it out personally or ask for examples from others like this http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5301856. Based on what I saw from other builds in that thread, I decided to take the leap and pumped up my agility on both my current kickers i'll then compare last season to this season, and then match up players from similar builds to check out any trends. then i'll post in that thread what I "learned" and let them decide whether they agree or not. but it'll be backed up with on field plays, not guesswork. and yes, nothing in GLB is ever 100% since it is a game based on a RNG.

as far as 1st step goes, because of this, http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5065409&page=2, i tried 2, s67/68, seasons of just putting 4 into 1st step and his, http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4642591, accuracy nosedived, so i swapped it out for diving tackle and his accuracy returned. i had other people make a similar move of dumping 1st step with similar improvement.

how do I know 88 strength is the right number to get a KO past the GL, http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player_replays.pl?player_id=4720848&game_id=2988430, player had 88 at that point. how do i know 160 is plenty to make long FGs, http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4675902. thats his build after 4 seasons of DECLINE and he was still making 100% of FG 49 yards and under, and 30% over that which many kickers cannot do in their prime. only thing i was adding in decline was speed/stamina in an attempt to keep his KO distances respectable.

punter/kicker are unique in glb because their performances are pretty much 100% up to their own builds. so when you learn something, it's really easy to just build 1 to prove/disprove the concept.

let me know what other examples you need.

I'm not going to read all of that because i haven't cared about STs since day 1 and don't touch it. thats what i pay Lex to do.


I know you know what you're saying but for guys who don't keep up on users and just see two users debating over something, it's best to include some evidence.

Guppy knows kickers/punters.
He has been building them forever.

Originally posted by RiverRat2
Guppy knows kickers/punters.
He has been building them forever.

I know and I don't 100% disagree with his take except for this; If he agrees that getting 4 AEQ is useful for the extra +3 kicking/punting then what SA WOULD he go with? A second Kicker SA to reduce SP's spent there? I could see that. When it comes to Kickers/Punters there aren't many bonuses out there that shine other than the SA's for their trees. However... having built a few myself and watched as they missed tackles they could have made... I have found Diving tackle to be useful in this. No... I don't keep track of the extreme few tackles my Kickers have ever made beyond the lowest levels where stuff like that happens anyways... but I do know it HAS happened (a diving tackle made on the returner, to save a TD, by the kicker)... so I don't consider it totally useless. It happens a lot more with the punters I build than the kickers since I don't address much other than Kicking with those anyways. Aside from kickoffs, they really don't play much defensive ST's. Punters are a bit different.

All that said, I'm sure Guppy would likely go for a double-up on one of the Kicker SA's rather than anything else and I wouldn't disagree. As for !st step, long ago it was debated a bunch when it came to blocked FG's and whether or not it worked. So many of the SA's we use on all dots don't 'ping' when they fire so you don't know if they work or not. Guppy, being a former bugs mod, says no. First time I've heard that from someone that likely has more insight into these things than 99% of us do due to his job in that manner. So I'm more than willing to drop that from my notes as 'debunked'.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I know and I don't 100% disagree with his take except for this; If he agrees that getting 4 AEQ is useful for the extra +3 kicking/punting then what SA WOULD he go with? A second Kicker SA to reduce SP's spent there? I could see that. When it comes to Kickers/Punters there aren't many bonuses out there that shine other than the SA's for their trees.

you use EQ/AEQ to fill in wherever your build is lacking. i admit that i tend to be lazy when it comes to AEQ and i'll take a pretty good and cheap AEQ over trying to get the "perfect" AEQ early on. so the 1st 2, i take whatever looks pretty good. after that, i can wait until the 50s to try for the 3rd. the 3rd depends on how the build is looking based on fully upgraded AEQs 1 & 2. when I find the one that complements those, then i usually just build AEQ 4. in the future, i probably wont even buy CE until plateau, and will buy a year of temp ce 1st. AEQ doesnt necessarily have to be punting or kicking if you are already going to hit the build goals. in fact, none of my current group of 4 got more than 2 AEQs in either kicking or punting. 3 of the 4 got pts in at least 3 attributes, and none of them had the most in either kicking or punting.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
However... having built a few myself and watched as they missed tackles they could have made... I have found Diving tackle to be useful in this. No... I don't keep track of the extreme few tackles my Kickers have ever made beyond the lowest levels where stuff like that happens anyways... but I do know it HAS happened (a diving tackle made on the returner, to save a TD, by the kicker)... so I don't consider it totally useless. It happens a lot more with the punters I build than the kickers since I don't address much other than Kicking with those anyways. Aside from kickoffs, they really don't play much defensive ST's. Punters are a bit different.

it's not the job of a punter or kicker to make tackles. yell at the STC if this is happening after day 200. dont wreck a build due to bad coaching. and dont wreck a build to do something that rarely happens after plateau. all diving tackle does is increase the tackle circle which is also based on jumping, and i've found no use for jumping on a kicker. but the k/p still has to make the tackle roll and they usually have really low tackling, so still a very high probability on missing the tackle. that info can be found in one of the early Q&As, as i just read it the other day. speed has some usefulness on a kicker to increase distance, but i found no benefit over 40, but speed has no effect on punting, so there's zero reason that a punter should ever have their speed increased, and would need the returner to literally run him over to even have a chance at a higher level tackle. that also came from an early Q&A


Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
All that said, I'm sure Guppy would likely go for a double-up on one of the Kicker SA's rather than anything else and I wouldn't disagree. As for !st step, long ago it was debated a bunch when it came to blocked FG's and whether or not it worked. So many of the SA's we use on all dots don't 'ping' when they fire so you don't know if they work or not. Guppy, being a former bugs mod, says no. First time I've heard that from someone that likely has more insight into these things than 99% of us do due to his job in that manner. So I'm more than willing to drop that from my notes as 'debunked'.

in a perfect world, i'd probably double up calm nerves and automatic and use CE on big boot. i'm currently on a rage against big boot and booming kick because it makes KO distances too varied. I set up coverage differently based on a 60 yard KO vs a 79 yard KO. BB/BK can cause a kicker to do both within a single game. i literally swapped out a BB for Automatic last season on 1 of my kickers to see if 23 in automatic will help with his accuracy over 55, leaving just 7 in BB. my other kicker has 15 in BB and is going to drive me crazy on his KO distances. so far the reduction of BB to 7 was very noticeable that within a game, the KO distances had a much smaller range, but you can still see the huge difference between games. more "proof" that the RNG used by GLB isnt very random within a game.

at some point long ago, either in a Q&A or a mod forum, bort or catch described the low chance of blocking a kick, and i tried for years to build players, or use players with those attributes, that could increase the chance based on that info, and never succeeded beyond normal expectations. but, and I admit, my memory is swiss cheese these days, i dont recall there being anything the kicker could do to decrease the chances. while theoretically, part of the block is the defender getting there b4 the kick, i've seen kickers with 70+ in speed that still couldnt get there before a defender and yet still made every kick. i've had zero problem getting players to the PH before the kicker and that just hasnt increased the number of blocked kicks. maybe some day i'll build a player with 150 speed and jumping just to see if that would work. but again, it mostly comes down to the STC setting up the blocking to make sure that the defenders dont get near the PH and then you dont even have to worry about the RNG at all .

Thanks Gup. Would like to leave you with this thought though. If you were my teams ST coach I would love every bit of this 'shorter kickoffs' idea to set up more possible ST fumbles and such things. However... I remember being the 'new ST coach' long time ago and I LOVED it when my kicker got touchbacks. I learned a little enough quickly enough to be able to stop mediocre returners... and even do a decent job against good returners. But the top returners and the best ST coaches gave me fits. So anytime I could stop a returner... any way possible... became the best thing. I'm good enough now that's not an issue anymore... but I cannot speak for all SR coaches and dot builders. I would say to anyone building a kicker... be damn sure of what your ST coach wants because it's likely based on their knowledge of what they can and cannot do well.


One thing we likely won't agree on is the punter... but that's an argument for a different day.

...when you log in for the first time in 3 days and all you find is 1 new post...and it's about kickers...